Aside from the 100 year old 30-06 what other American invented cartridges have heen a world wide success?

45 acp?

it would be a long list, I would think most of the cartridges offered by the rifle/cartridge manufacturers in USA

300 Win mag, 458 Win mag and 7mm Rem mag come to mind.

Almost forgot about the 308 and 223.
Andy

Mickey

I think the answers depend a bit on how you define success.

Let me use the 30/06 as an example. It is used in Australia, however if we exclude ex military rifles it is almost rare compared to the 270 and 308. In other words it is top of the heap in the US but low down in the heap in the Australia when compared to 270 and 308.

So on the basis that the success in the US is repeated in other countries I think the 243 is right up there and 308 probably next.

I also agree with CZ 550 on the 458 but not the 7mm Remington. I think the 7mm Rem does OK in other countries but again is not top of the heap like in the US.

The 375 H&H in many ways could be considered a US calibre as the US is undoubtedly the reason for the world wide success of the 375. The 375 over the years has probably be more closely associated with the Model 70 and Winchester ammo than any other calibre.

So in terms of the calibre being on similar rung of the ladder in other countries and also allowing for populartityy of bore size in general, then I think 243, 458 and 375 if we allow for the US influence on the 375.

I have left out 223 because I think that it will not be as widely used in many countries as it is in the US...or Australia

Mike

[ 06-02-2003, 16:22: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

C/

Contrary to personal perception the 375H&H and the 458 Win are way way down on the list of popular hunting cartridges, both for sale of reloading equipment or loaded ammunition.

Yes, buy they dominate that calibre size and that is the case world wide.

Undoubtedly the 6mm Remington and 25/06 sell far better than the 375 and 458. However in that general bore size group they are complete failures when compared to the 243 and 270.

Mike

Mike

The most common calibres in Australia (well they were 15 years ago) was easily the .22 rimfire and the .222, followed by the .243.

All relatively small bores for the predominantly sized game hunted - ie rabbits, foxes and goats and pigs.

But the "hope" of hunting deer sized game has since led many to buy .308s, .30-06s and so forth. There doesn't seem to be much between at all in numbers.

I agree with you IF an Aussie buys a big bore they will 95% of the time first buy a .375 H&H.

I don't know anyone who uses a .270 or a 7mm Rem Mag these days.

Is anyone forgetting the .22 Long Rifle rimfire? That cartridge traces its roots to the very first .22 rimfire cartridge developed by Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson.

NitroX

I would say sales of new sporting rifles in 30/06 is extremely small as compared to 270 and 308.

308 seems more popular than the 270 although the 270 probably sells better in rifles like M70 or Sako whereas the 308 is much more common in rifles the like the Ruger and Howa.

Undoubtedly the 30/06 sells well in small pockets such as Sambar hunters but not across the country.

Mike

.22 LR Smith and Wesson
.32 ACP John Browning
.30 06 Sprinfiels Whelen et al
.308 Win.
.223 Rem Mike Walker
.222 Rem Mike Walker
.50 BMG John Browning

Americans who were not taken seriously be US arms makers
James Paris Lee ( Lee Enfield Lee Navy Rifles)
Hugo Borchardt ( Worked for Sharps)
John Browning ( Taken very seriously after WW1)
Hiram Maxim ( Maxim Machine guns and suppressors)

All of these men had most of their designs rejected in the US are were forced to go abroad to market their ideas, look at all of those Lee Enfields!

Just a little fun, don't get to bent out of shape

Aleko

Mike, NitroX
The 270 is popular here in Sambar country pre the semi auto ban a woody in 30-06 was about the most popular, now I think it is a bit more diverse 35 Whelan is common.
re the 270 I have 2, another freind has 3 and another 2 freinds have 1 each
other popular ones
22lr
222
223
22-250
243
6.5*55 (notUS design)
7mm rem mag
30-30
308
30-06
35Whelan
375H&H
45-70
I think the 416Rigby will become more popular with the CZ's

ones I own
17rem
22-250
224Weatherby
6mm rem imp
270*2
416sw

friends own
223 imp
22-250
220 swift
25-06
270
375H&H

friend now in USA but guns bought and still here
223
220 Swift
6.5/284
264
7mm rem
338win
9.3*74
30-378 weath imp
378 weath imp
416 weath imp

416SW

A mate of mine who was in the gun trade told me that Winchester Australia said most 30/06 M70s went to Victoria.

At our largest range in Sydney...Silverdale....it is extremely rare to see a 30/06 sporting rifle.

"Big guns" you would see most commonly would be 300 Winchester, 300 Weatherby, 375 H&H (especially BRNO) and 458 in both BRNO and Ruger Number 1 and of course the Marlin 45/70s.

You never seem to see a 338 except for the Ruger Stainless. I think when rifle price is the same such as with Sako, Australians seem to buy the 375 H&H rather than the 338 Winchester.

Mike

I think the most popular round in sweden would be the 6,5x55. In finland it would be the 308Win (if not the 7,62x54 russian). 30-06 is allso popular in finland and sweden.

243 is not very popular in neither finland or sweden (allthough I have one for roedeer) neither the 7mm rem mag.

the .22 LR is of course very popular up here as well as the 12 guage...

Mike

I guess most deer hunters here buy their rifles to not only hunt fallow and feral game but also for the one or two yearly sambar trips.

There is a whole country outside of Sydney.

NitroX

I am very aware that Silverdale is not a complete representation. However I think there are very 30/06s sold in NSW.

My guess is that most bigger guns, especially 375 and up will never see bigger than pigs, goats and roos and of course rocks and tins of water.

I am also inclined to think that a much higher proportion of 30/06s (new sporting rifles) and 338s are used on bigger animals than is the case with 300 Winchester.

It would be interesting to see some real figures.

If this forum is representative of Americans, then it appears Australians are far more inclined to shoot the pig, goat or roo with their 375s and up than is the case for Americans and their white tail deer. Perhaps because of our higher volume of shooting we are less worried about efficiency as might be the case when only one or two animals are to be shot.

Mike

Mike375:

Stateside here, rifles fall into several categories, and it depends on what type of hunting someone does based on where they live or their travel time and budget permitting.

Varmint rifles in the USA ( the common ones)
223, 22/250 220Swift ( somewhat here and there)
243, 6mm Rem, then the few who use larger, such as the 25 cals, or 6.5s.

Deer rifles, probably the most common everywhere:
30/06, 30/30 and 308, 270, 280, 25 Calibers ( 25/06, 257 Roberts, 250 Savage (old)) 7 mms ( 7/08, 7 x57 280 Remington) 6.5 mms ( 260, 6.5 x55) 243, 6mmRem
Then the MAGNUM crowds: 7 Mag most popular, because it has the recoil of a 30/06, but has more range to it., then the 300s, 338s. the Weatherby anything ( 257, 270, 7mm, 300, 340 most common, and then the new cannons, 30/378 and 338/378) don't see many guys carry 375s for deer.
Elk in the lower 48, Grizzly, Moose in Alaska,
Any mag, most people feel 270 is minimal, others only the 30/06 is minimal.
IN Alaska, the 338 is to Alaska like the 30/06 is in the lower 48. then you get the big mag crowd in Alaska, the 358 mags, the 375, 416s, 458 and the occasional 460 Weatherby nut.

In hunting circles it is trendy to be carrying whatever is in Vogue in the USA. I am not part of that school. A few years ago, it was the Ultra Mag. Once all of these guys got tired of getting knocked on their asses, it is now trendy for the Short Magnums.

Minus the the 22 mag and 223 ( or 222) if I did not have a caliber in my gun safe that was not designed after 1918, I would be just fine. I might make an exception for the 270 circa 1925.

I personally see no reason for a magnum until it is stamped 375 H&H., and in my world see no reason for anything in my life that needs anything bigger. Since 1912 they have improved on it little. Sure some might do this better or that better, but a 375 slug sure stops a lot of things I would ever encounter. I am not going to be somewhere where animals weigh over 1500 pounds anyway.

You Aussie have the luxury or common sense to be more practical than here in the states ( or I should say metro areas). In our rural areas a lot of guys still hunt deer with a 30/30 that belong to their grandpa. and that is the most common hunting done in the USA

seafire

One of the big differences between the US and Australia is that very few Australians live in rural areas. Over 50% of our population lives in either Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane. If we include Adelaide and Perth plus all the people on the Eastern coast line bewteen Melbourne and Brisbane we must getting close to 90% of the population. In other words a very high proportion of Australia shooters either live in one of our 5 main cities or right next to those cities.

If these forums are representative and if we take the 270, 7mm Rem, 308, 30/06 and 300 Win as the base line, then for something different Americans seem more inclined to go for Rem Ultra or 30/378, 338 and 340 whereas Australian are more likely to go in the 375 and 458 direction. Both powder choice (lack of in Australia as compared to the US) and barrel life might be one fatcor.

Mike

I can see the 45-70 slowly taking off here in Scandinavia.

The perfect caliber for dog guides, walking in brush all day.Short,fast shots,a modern Marlin, it just does not get any better than that for our typical moose hunt.

One needs to be active to find brass and bullets over here though, preferably cast your own.

Most common in north queensland would be the various .224 cals(even on big pigs).
Have seen the 243, 270,308 out west more so, and lots of 30-30's and lever action handgun calibres on the coast.
The 30-06 is comparitivley non existant here for some reason.

I think the 300 win mag has more profoundly affected my local redneck compatriots than others.
You hear a lot of references to the '300 winny' at the range.

"Nice rifle mate- does that come in 300 winny?"
"308 was no good for camels so got out the 300 winny".

A mate and I were testing his Sako trg-42 tactical rifle at the range a fortnight ago and some crusty salt of the earth came up and said "that sounds like a 300 winny to me"

Incidentally it was.

Karl.

Heritage Arms - I think you should take John Browning off of your list. He was very well respected in the U.S. long before WWI. He had given Winchester right of first refusal for his designs back in 1884? when they bought the 1885 falling block design. He went on with the 1886, 1892, 1894 lever action rifles, the 1887, 1893 and 1897 shotgun designs, and many other designs and improvements that Winchester bought to keep them off the market. After Winchester refused to bring one of his designs to market, Browning declared his contract with Winchester void and sold his designs to the highest bidder. Colt got the 1903, 1905 and 1911 pistol designs, Remington and FN bought the Auto-5 shotgun design. During WWI he did the BAR, the M2 50 caliber, the water & air-cooled versions of the 30 caliber machine gun, and several small cannon designs. His only notable design work after WWI was the Browning Hi-Power, that was still being developed by FN when he died.

The other american gunmaker that never got his designs into the public was Pederson. His two major inventions (the Pederson device for the 1903 and his semi-auto design to replace the 1903) were never commercialized.

.270
.30-06
7rem mag
.300Win mag
.38 special
.45acp

These will be around along time.

.22 hornet, .222, .223, .22-250, .220, .243, .25-06, .270, 7mm Rem Mag, 30-06, .308, 30-30, .300 Win Mag, 300 Wby Mag, .338 win mag, .35 Whelen (marginal).45-70, 458 Win Mag, .460 Wby.