I have a NIB M70 Safari Express 458 win. mag. that appears to be a bit different. The difference is that it matches up to my M70 375 H&H in terms of the hole spacing on the back bridge, etc. The action appears to be just like the 375 H&H in terms of length, etc.

The 458 is not as barrel heavy as the 375 H&H (thankfully!) I am going to have a gunsmith check it over but my question; Is it worth changing the 458 win. mag. to a Lott?

I looked over the most recent Hornady and Barnes reloading manuals and it seems that I pick up less than 100 fps going to the Lott. However, with 500 grain mono-metal (Barnes TSX) the win. mag. is 2000+/-s vs the Lott 2100+/-. If I stay with the win. mag, I would be loading 450 mono-metals vs 500 grain mono-metals in the Lott.

Have any of you guys coverted a M70 Safari Espress 458 win. mag. to Lott? and was it worth it to you?

Thanks for the input....

jjs

Reaming to the Lott will be easily done. You will pick up a bit of a velocity increase and you can still shoot WM ammo if you have to. The biggest 'concerns' in having the change done are 1) the vintage and collector value of the gun you own now. As some M70's in .458WM will lose collector value being converted and
2) how do you handle 458WM recoil? The Lott is going to give you more recoil. If the WM hurts, the Lott will hurt more.
As for me I would probably leave it as is. With todays available loadings, there is nothng you can not kill quite dead with the win mag. If I was buying a new gun, then I'd opt for the Lott.

I have had a few big bores including a 458 Lott CZ 550 and could handle the recoil well enough.
The Safari Express feels a bit ligther than the CZ and thats a plus for me.

I do not see any collector value in this rifle, at least not for a long time, as it is just a plain jane Safari Express and no pre-64.

This rifle will be used primarily as a back-up DGR, target mostly Cape Buffalo...possibly in the future Elephant.

I will venture a guess that the magazine boxes are different and possibly the follower.

I am not up as well as I should be on the post 64 Win 70's of all eras. The pre 64 is a different animal in the mag box department.

The question is what will you do with it? I have done it to a few rifles including an old push feed M70 and a mid 90's express model. Neither one was needed in my opinion for the rocks, stumps, rabbits, and deer I shot with them. There was certainly a noticable increase in recoil and on one that was not bedded well it actually pushed the crossbolt back through the stock a quarter inch after about 20 rounds of Lott. There was no problem with the stock with the 500 or so rounds of wim mag before that.

Matthew

jjs,

For all practical purposes the only reason to do the conversion is because you want a Lott. The 458 WM with Barnes 450 TSX and Banded solids at 2300 fps is good for anything from Pachyderms at 50 feet to an eland at 200 yards plus.

Mark

IMHO, modern powders preclude the necessity of converting it. Load it like Mark said, or try 450 A Frames or 500 A Frames with AA 2230 and you should do just fine.

My last PH hunted a 22' barreled custom Win mag and has for years. He's still walking around happily backing up clients with it and sees no reason for a Lott if you load your own. Neither do I, because I just bought a Win mag and will be loading A Frames in it, and 500 gr. Hornady solids.

With AA2230, you can easily get 2200 fps in a 22" barrel with a 500 grain bullet in the ordinary .458 WM. The Lott does not add sufficient value to justify fooling around with rechambering and possibly fooling with the magazine.

My PH on my last hunt has been loading 74 grs. of 2230 behind a 500 A Frame and Hornady solids for several years and swears by it. I personally saw that load knock the stuffing out of a Kitiangare buff I had just shot in the heart who had turned to charge.

Thanks for the feedback! I decided to keep it as a 458 win. mag. for now. Ordered dies, brass, and bullets...now just need to settle on a couple of powders to try out.

Thanks again,

jjs

I love AA 2230. I get an easy 2145fps with 500gr Woodleigh solids using a mid level load. That has proven more than sufficient on a number of elephants. Get about the same with 500gr Woodleigh softs as well.

You may also want to look into AA 2460, it apparently offers more than the AA 2230 in velocity.

JPK

I just took delivery on my .458 Win and am doing the same thing, getting a press caliber conversion kit and ordering some powder. The guy who sold me the rifle, dirklawyer on AR, has had good luck with 450 grain A Frames at 2111 fps and he downloads 405 gr. Remingtons to 1900 for practice. He sent me some of each with the rifle and they work very well. Can't wait to get this rifle into the field.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I love AA 2230. I get an easy 2145fps with 500gr Woodleigh solids using a mid level load. That has proven more than sufficient on a number of elephants. Get about the same with 500gr Woodleigh softs as well.

You may also want to look into AA 2260, it apparently offers more than the AA 2230 in velocity.

JPK

Hello JPK,

Did you mean AA 2460 instead of AA 2260? Have you ever used H335?

Thanks,

jjs

quote:

Originally posted by jjs:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
I love AA 2230. I get an easy 2145fps with 500gr Woodleigh solids using a mid level load. That has proven more than sufficient on a number of elephants. Get about the same with 500gr Woodleigh softs as well.

You may also want to look into AA 2260, it apparently offers more than the AA 2230 in velocity.

JPK

Hello JPK,

Did you mean AA 2460 instead of AA 2260? Have you ever used H335?

Thanks,

jjs

Oh s--t, hate those typo's. Yes I meant 2460 and changed my post to reflect that. Sorry for the typo.

I have H 335 on the list of powders that I will someday get around to trying. It was one that I had when I was working up loads, several years ago now, for elephant hunting. Manuals do not show the velocity for pressure that AA 2230 delovers.

I was going to try H335 because it is a Hogdon Extreme powder, developed by the Aussies and relatively temperature insensative. But I found that AA 2230 is temperature insensative as well. Same chrono readings in ~40*F as in ~110*F. Any difference there might have been was lost in round to round variation.

But as I said, I'm loving AA 2230. I'm getting 2145fps with Woodleigh 500's just two grains off the starting load, iirc. And I had the loads pressure tested, because my 458wm is a double rifle, and they were well below max.

H 4895 proved very inconsistent in my rifles two barrels, but I like it for 450gr or lighter bullets.

A commonly cited favorite, IMR 3031 is a powder I would not encourage my worst enemy to use in the 458wm. Poor velocity, very, very temperature sensative. Velocity variation 90*F to 40*F on order of 150-200fps. That kind of sensativity is enough to get a fellow killed on a cool morning in elephant country.

I don't recall offhand other I have tried.

If you have H 335, then you ought to try it, but if you don't, I would look to AA 2230 and do some research on AA 2460.

I am currently out of 458wm solid ammo, but not planning an elephant hunt any time soon. Maybe next season. When I get to reloading, I'll crack that can of H 335. I'll also try the 2460 too.

Please keep me posted on what you try and what you find. I will do likewise here on the forum.

JPK