Model 70 Safari model have two cross bolts and the Model 70 Alaskan only one in 375 H&H. Does the Alaskan hold up as well as the Safari ? Anyone have experience with the Alaskan ?

I've got both. I haven't had the Alaskan very long but it does have more shots through it than most .375s ever get.

I wouldn't worry about it, mostly because .375s don't kick that much. It doesn't hurt to get rid of the factory hot melt bedding and do a real job if you are worried about it.

The African is rather heavy for a .375, the Alaskan weighs about the same as any other magnum sporter. 2 pounds difference on mine.

I don't think it will be a problem, I put a HS Precision stock on mine with an ally bedding block, no need for cross bolts. I also rechambered it to 375 Weatherby.
Very nice rifles, but the original recoil pads are harder than a cat's head!

Cheers.

I am considering buying one and would like to get some recent feedback now that several members have had their's for a while.

quote:

Originally posted by clayman216:
Model 70 Safari model have two cross bolts and the Model 70 Alaskan only one in 375 H&H. Does the Alaskan hold up as well as the Safari ? Anyone have experience with the Alaskan ?

It might have a hidden one at the rear. Those two cross bolts and their look have been a thing with the "express" 375 and 458s for a hell of a long time.

I have two of them and both have the usual two visible crossbolts.
One made in USA/SC has plainer wood (2012 production).
The one assembled in Portugal has prettier, darker wood (2015 production).

The USA-assembled rifle's stock weighs 2.0 pounds exactly, as seen below.
The Portugal-assembled rifles's stock weighs 1 ounce more.
Respective rifle weights are 7 lbs 10 oz and 7 lbs 11 oz.

Made in the USA rifle:



Excellent factory bedding, ready to shoot right out of the box:









This is the perfect hunting rifle in walnut and blue for safari.
For Alaska, put it in the Bell & Carlson Medalist stock, and coat the metal with wax,
and tape the muzzle.

The B&C Medalist stock to fit this rifle also weighs exactly two pounds.

The Portugal-assembled rifle, also pictured above (top of this reply) beside the .458 WIN:



Here is the collector's item, made only one year, 2012, picture is from Winchester website, discontinued model,
Model 70 Alaskan Stainless Laminate:



Member Skyline lucked into one of these.
I called BACO to verify there was only one run of those.

Rip ...

You can look around the auction sights there was a limited run of Laminated stock and Stainless steel Alaskans. That would be the more solid setup.

I am sorry RIP. I did not see your post of the laminated stock rifle.

I am planning on buying an Alaskan 375 as soon as I get back to the USA, Currently, I don't own one.

The 375H&H Alaskans have two crossbolts. 338 and smaller only have one.

Properly bedded, I think one is enough. But when I put my 375 Alaskan over into a different stock I added a second crossbolt. Just because.

It's interesting to see the production rifles from Winchester in 375 that they made later than the one I owned. Since I already had one, I didn't try to keep up with what they were making over the years.

I bought mine used, well over 20 years ago. It was stainless, with the plastic stock and a heavy barrel. it was pretty ugly but I got a deal. And as I recall it had the hot-glue recoil lug bedding. I bought it to be an Alaska bush whacker. I never liked the stock nor the heavy barrel, and certainly didn't like the bedding. It didn't have any cross bolts, as I recall.

So, over time I had it modified.

First I had the barrel cut to 20" to make it lighter. Then I discovered it wouldn't shoot accurately. I shot it very little before cutting the barrel. In the process of familiarizing with it I noticed that the low powered scope wouldn't line up with the barrel. I could see the barrel through the scope at the lowest power. I studied on that for a while. First I thought the holes in the receiver for the scope bases were drilled off-center. Then I figured the threads for the receiver or the barrel were sideways a little. I took it to another gunsmith to figure it out, since I figured maybe the first one contributed to the problem when he re-installed the barrel. It turned out to be the barrel was threaded crooked from the factory, which was actually the good news since the receiver was not the problem. So, I had it re-barreled in 375 H&H again - this time with a slender barrel. And I had it re-stocked with a McMillan, and the gunsmith did an excellent bedding job.

After all that it was very accurate and I used it for a long time, and enjoyed it. I've sold it since then.

You may think it was an anomaly, and my response is that the 375 was not my only bad experience with Winchester Mod 70s produced about that time - stainless controlled round feed - not push feed. I had a 338 WM and a short action 308, and they both left the factory with significant problems/flaws, and both had the hot-glue bedding as I recall. I got rid of the 308 and got two 77MKII Rugers in 308, which were excellent. I re-barreled the 338 to 338 and restocked it with a McMillan, and after that it was accurate. The factory barrel was terrible for accuracy. It's replacement was super accurate. I have since sold it.

I stopped looking at Winchester Mod 70s after all that experience of poor production, which led me to the CZ 550. I like the 30-06 length actions, although I did own one CZ 550 with the laminate stock in 375 H&H for a short while. It was a heavy beast. It probably could have been modified to be lighter, but I was tired of spending time and money on 375s by that time, and became a 9.3x62 convert.

Frankly, if I wanted another 375, I would shop for a Sako, which would probably be correct right out of the box. And if I wanted something in the 375 H&H class of power, I would look for something that didn't need the extra long action, such as a 375 Ruger.

Also, over the years I've read many times of those with the high opinion of the Winchester Mod 70 CRF action. I have no real complaints regarding the action, since they worked perfectly, except that controlled feed short action, which would not feed properly. It's just that IMO, there are better actions, such as the old Sako, and the CZ 550 (short and Safari), and even the cast Ruger action.


The story on that Winchester short action is that I contacted the customer service at Winchester about it, then sent it to them for corrections. They messed with the feed rails, etc., and it still was not good enough when I got it back. So, they offered to buy it back from me at retail. Done deal. I took the money and bought two good used Rugers in 308. which fed perfectly. One I sold or traded and the other I have now and it wears a stainless super accurate PacNor in 308.

Just when I was thinking of getting a Winchester .458, you tell us that, Magine. Is there a machine-made rifle from somewhere in the world that has both a barrel installed in line with the receiver as well as a trustworthy action and bolt shroud?

Maybe a Sako.

Also, I've owned several CZ 550s, and still own several, and all I've tested have been remarkably accurate right out of the box. All but one have been epoxy bedded, just because it's better. I now have only one that is the same as it was out of the box, and haven't tested it yet. After owning it for nearly ten years, perhaps it's about time.

I've owned several Rugers, with varying results. I actually had one Ruger in 300 Mag that was so accurate that I'm sure there was no room for improvement. I've owned one in 257 Roberts that was probably the worst for accuracy of any I've owned.


But you are correct to a degree. Probably no factory made rifle has the action and barrel perfectly aligned. But I challenge you to find one so badly out of alignment as that factory barrel on my 375 H&H Winchester Mod 70. If I hadn't been using a low powered scope, I probably would have not noticed the alignment issue. It was perplexing to look through the scope and see the vertical reticle out of alignment with the center of the barrel at the muzzle and more centered closer to the receiver. That, in addition to the utter inaccuracy of the thing.

Right now, the closest thing I have to a 375 H&H is a 9.3 mm on the 338 WM case. It's a wildcat that clones the performance of the 9.3x64 Brenneke or maybe the Sako 370 (9.3x66)

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792663275

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792708625

New in Box:
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790263563

Plenty of factory loads available in 370 Sako.

https://www.gunbroker.com/All/...?Keywords=370%20sako

Anyway, I still have my wildcat, mostly because I like it, and partially because I probably can't sell it for what it's worth. I still haven't thoroughly tested it, and I'm looking forward to that.

It's on a Ruger receiver, with a PacNor barrel and HS Precision stock epoxy bedded in over the aluminum insert. I bought the reamer for PacNor to use and had custom Redding dies made.

If you worry about the shroud, etc. they say that it's hard to beat the Mauser.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/796635114

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792441171

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/792408593

There's always the CZ 550 Safari Mag:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/790779421

quote:

Originally posted by Magine Enigam:

But I challenge you to find one so badly out of alignment as that factory barrel on my 375 H&H Winchester Mod 70. If I hadn't been using a low powered scope, I probably would have not noticed the alignment issue. It was perplexing to look through the scope and see the vertical reticle out of alignment with the center of the barrel at the muzzle and more centered closer to the receiver. That, in addition to the utter inaccuracy of the thing.

That is unusual for one of those old Synthetic Stainless 375s. Plenty of the wood 375s and especially the 458s, the barrel is fucked up by the welding of the second recoil lug on the barrel under the rear sight.

I know RIP disagrees with me but I reckon Weaterby have the best system on their big kickers with the barrel recoil lug mounted on the knox form of the barrel, about an inch in front of the action. I doubt any gun company has had more experience in big kickers in both sheer number of rifles and over a long period of time.

As to barrel/action alignment I would vote the Mark V as the best, although I have no meaningful experience with Sauer or Blaser.

Sako can be fun with mounts. The tapered dovetails are dumb and they use then on their sniper style rifle.

As a side note with the Mark V there was a fuckup when manufacture went back to the US in the mid 90s. Mark Vs took Rem 700 mounts although the rear screws are shorter because of the thinner rear receiver ring (to accommodate the large diameter bolt). However, in mid 90s when manufacture was returned to the US there was a stuff up and the rear receiver ring is about .020" thinner. The contour is the same but if Rem 700 mounts are used then apart from stress there will obviously be alignment problems. Correct Mark V mounts do the job or shim under the rear base, which from memory RIP has used.

When one mention the mod. 70 Alaskan to me I think of arguebly the finest factory 338 ever built..The mod. 70 Alaskan pre 64...

There you go again Mike, taking my handle in vain.
I do not particularly disagree with the Weatherby knoxform secondry recoil lug.

You were spot on about the Rem M700 bases needing 0.020" shim on the rear base to work on my Weatherby MkV .510/.338 Lopwah Magnum.

The 1996 vintage Winchester M70 Classic Stainless .375 H&H, straight out of the box in Tupperware stock with hotglue bedding was very accurate for me,
unlike for Imaginary Enigma.
There is the occasional lemon I suppose.

In over 2 dozen Winchester M70's and 2 dozen Ruger M77's I have had only one that was bad.
It was a Ruger M77 tang-saftied Ultralight 270 WCF with a pencil-thin barrel in walnut stock.
It's group was bigger than my hat size at 100 yards.
Another Ruger factory rifle in .416 Rigby would shoot bugholes.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
When one mention the mod. 70 Alaskan to me I think of arguebly the finest factory 338 ever built..The mod. 70 Alaskan pre 64...

The .338 WIN Winchester M70 Extreme Weather Stainless-Synthetic with 26" fluted barrel is a worthy successor.
It weighs only 6 lbs. 14 oz. out of the box, and handles like a magic wand.



Rip ...

Ron,

Re Knox form lug.

We had a gunsmith in Sydney who made up a lug that was one piece and was a ring with a lug protruding. Done for Sako 375s. The ring was sweated to the knox form. We also had a screw go into the lug and washer like ring inletted into the stock to support the screw head.

When we bedded/floated we left the tiny Sako Mauser size lug out of the picture. The big lug on the bottom of the ring and close to the action sort of turned the Sako into a Model 70.

He made bases for the Sako out of what I think was called Wibrac steel. It went a sort of brownish colour when blued. The bases could be belted on as hard as you like and not split the front one. We used little strips of mild steel between base and dovetail which gave correct position when bases were belted on. being mild steel no harm to the action dovetails.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

The 1996 vintage Winchester M70 Classic Stainless .375 H&H, straight out of the box in Tupperware stock with hotglue bedding was very accurate for me,
unlike for Imaginary Enigma.
There is the occasional lemon I suppose.

Rip ...

All enigmas are imaginary.

As I said in my post, the 375 with the Tupperware stock was not my only experience with that vintage of Mod 70. My 338 had a flawed factory barrel too, and the 308 wouldn't feed.

So, yes, occasional lemons indeed.

I forgot to mention that I also had a 270 Mod 70, same vintage, about that time and it was very accurate. I should have kept that one, but I was into various 7mm at the time and had not gained proper appreciation for the 270.

Too bad they do not make a factory M70 .375 H&H like this .338 WIN:



Here is that Connecticut Classic M70 that shot a sub-0.2-inch 3-shot group at 100 yards, while still wearing the Tupperware with hotglue bedding:



For $250 at the local Sportsman's Whorehouse I found a 2.5-pound HS Precision stock that increased the weight of the rifle to 8#11oz without scope.

Nowadays, for $250 you can get a B&C Medalist that weighs 2.0 pounds.
That would make this rifle weigh 8#3oz dry.
Perfect for a .375 H&H or .375 Weatherby.

The current M70 Alaskan would weigh about a half-pound less, at 7#11oz, and would have the same weight in factory walnut as in B&C Medalist.

About 7.75 pounds for the 25"-barreled SC/Portugal M70 Alaskan .375 H&H, whether in walnut or B&C Medalist.
About 8.25 pounds for the 24"-barreled Connecticut M70 Classic Stainless .375 H&H in B&C Medalist.
The Classic will be a little muzzle heavy.
The Alaskan will have a "Bespoke" balance, in wood or B&C.

The Classic is well-balanced in the HS Precision stock.

Rip ...

Well, I to was excited about Sako and the 85 on paper seems awesome. Barrel quailty they are know for, control round feed, and built to a weight i think perfect for a 375 h&h, not to mention some of the other cool chamberings available. But......look where they placed the ejector, six o'clock. It sends a spent cartridge straight up and into the scope. I cant even believe a company like Sako would release a rifle on the market that will not eject a shell reliably.

Ive always been fond of the Ruger boat paddle .338, 300 Win mag, etc..that's one tough cookie for Alaska..

Kind of off the topic but what barrel maker would make the Alaskan contour?
Would any of them have it on file or would I need to furnish the dimensions?
Any help appreciated.

Thanks for that extensive reply, Magine, and sorry I took so long to come back to this thread. Your links to FN Mausers had me drooling over the keyboard

As you know, I am a long-time Sako user and have found mine so good I've somehow not replaced it with heaps of others the way I once did trying to find a shotgun that suited me. If I didn't wear glasses, I'd be inclined to solder or JBWeld a contoured piece of steal on the left of the bolt shroud, to divert any gas that did exit rearward.

Thinking of JBWeld, I hear the auto shop up the road has it but that it comes in several versions.

RIP, which is the best JBWeld type for our purposes?

Would it have any application for adding a barrel-mounted recoil lug, to prevent the problem with welding that Mike McGuire mentioned?

sambarman338,
J-B Weld
Original Cold-Weld Formula Steel-Reinforced Epoxy.
Dark grey color.
Twin Tube little size.
Or, Professional big size: 10 oz total, 5 oz of "Steel" black-colored, 5 oz of "Hardener" white-colored,
mix equal parts for grey-colored cold-welding.
That will do as well as solder, IMHO.

Rip ...

quote:

look where they placed the ejector, six o'clock. It sends a spent cartridge straight up and into the scope. I cant even believe a company like Sako would release a rifle on the market that will not eject a shell reliably.

That's a pretty common problem with the Sako 85's. Do a google search on "Sako ejection problems" and you'll quite a few folks who have experienced the problem. Beretta won't do anything to help. It's just a poor design.

A buddy of mine bought an 85 in 7mm Mag. He experienced this exact problem. He used low Sako ring mounts with a leupold 3.5x10x40. He got so disgusted with ejected shells hitting the scope and dropping back in the action that he sent the Sako down the road. I really like the older Sako's but wouldn't buy a Model 85.

Thanks RIP, will look into getting some. Might be just the thing for that idea I had of sticking mounts on the MS.

Yes, Labman, Sako rifles seem to have dual personalities: generally very high quality but with some strange design quirks.

ABout any good glass job will work on a 300 or .338..Ive used Marine Tex mostly over the last couple of years, and some Brownells Gel, never had any actually bad glass...

I suspect that laminated stock SS Win will hold up as long as a good sledge hammer..be hard to wear out..

I really like that Ruger 77 SS with the old boatpaddle stock, you can stick it upright in the snow use it to paddle your boat and wack a Brown Bear in the head when you run out of ammo. I have one for my Ruger African for a back up stock or late season elk hunt in Idaho when the snow is deep..It swaps out with out any change in the zero of my gun..

I have the SS in laminate, love it shoots very accurately, low recoil. Didnt realize it is a collectors model. You would think they would make the Alaskans in this configuration all the time!

I would buy one.

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
I have the SS in laminate, love it shoots very accurately, low recoil. Didnt realize it is a collectors model. You would think they would make the Alaskans in this configuration all the time!

Lucky man. I think there were about 1200 of those made in one run, 2011-2012, Shot Show debut for 2012, IIRC. No more after that.

I would buy another one too, if available in stainless, but why not a B&C Medalist stock, like they use on the All-Weather models, instead of laminate?
Keep the iron sights on the slender stainless barrel.
It would be like the Alaskan and the All-Weather had a baby.
No need for a fatter, fluted, stainless barrel with no sights, but I could go for that too.
Maybe BACO will come around someday?

Rip ...

Got the JBWeld, RIP, now what to do with it? Thought I might use it on a recalcitrant front sight that keeps sliding out - but what if I want to change it? 550 degrees might loosen more than sight dovetail.

I have found that gentle heat with a propane torch softens it. Advertising may exaggerate its heat resistance.
Obviously you do not want to use it on the sight insert if the ramp is soldered on,
unless you want to replace the soldered ramp with a J-B-Welded ramp, which would be just as good.
One screw and J-B Weld will hold a sight ramp on as well as solder.
If it comes loose, clean it up and put it all back together with the "cold weld."
It cleans up while fresh and wet/tacky with simple kitchen vinegar, for any excess squeezed out when screwsare tightened.
After it hardens, most of it will come off by heat, and scraping with a piece of wood while hot.
Use steel wool for traces left after that, and/or a bronze/brass/copper bristle brush while hot or cool.
You better be sure of the position of the dovetailed insert if you want to J-B-Weld it as you will have to use heat to get it out.

I once had a front sight ramp break through the hole for the one screw holding it on.
J-B-Welded it. Good as new, good as solder, maybe better.

Obviously, get metal out of wood stock and wrap any adjoining metal that is not being heated, wrap with wet towels, dripping wet with water.

Rip ...

Thanks RIP,
I should print out your response and staple it to the packet.

I have epoxied sight ramps on in the past and maybe could just use the old stuff to hold the post in its dovetail. A bit of heat will get that off and some solvent (forgotten) cleans it up.

Interesting this is the exact same problem I am having on a Tikka T3 300 WM stainless fluted. took a long time to figure out but ejected case bounces off scope sometimes back into action. In any case not a robust ejection. I elected not to take on bear hunt. Accurate and light as hell but not reliable. I took the m70 stainless 375 that will eject a case about a hundred feet if you pull hard enough. Sounds like there is not much to do about it ?

quote:

Originally posted by Labman:

quote:

look where they placed the ejector, six o'clock. It sends a spent cartridge straight up and into the scope. I cant even believe a company like Sako would release a rifle on the market that will not eject a shell reliably.

That's a pretty common problem with the Sako 85's. Do a google search on "Sako ejection problems" and you'll quite a few folks who have experienced the problem. Beretta won't do anything to help. It's just a poor design.

A buddy of mine bought an 85 in 7mm Mag. He experienced this exact problem. He used low Sako ring mounts with a leupold 3.5x10x40. He got so disgusted with ejected shells hitting the scope and dropping back in the action that he sent the Sako down the road. I really like the older Sako's but wouldn't buy a Model 85.

SAmbarman,
If you want to unglue glass used on metal, use a kitchen propane torch with a small flame, heat the screw or sight you will see a little "oozing" it time to pull it out or unscrew it...its very easy, just use a modicum of care..I glass stripped out threads in scope rings or actions, whatever in camps distant from civilization, and removed them at home then repaired them properly...glass of any kind is the 8th wonder of the world..It will fix anything..

I second the motion, love the old L series Sakos but you couldn't give me a new one, pure junk! like so much out there these days..

Thanks Ray,
being a kitchen-sink gunsmith, I'm more likely to pass the barrel over a small gas ring - but will seek out a propane torch if you think that's safer. Is that what's used to light gas stoves when there's no piezo, like the link below?

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/254062081151?chn=ps

That is a butane lighter, might as well flick your Bic.
Ray's propane torch comes in from the shop for kitchen patrol/KP duty as needed would be my guess, as shown here:

https://www.bernzomatic.com/
https://www.bernzomatic.com/Segments/Chef
https://www.bernzomatic.com/Pr...vs-Food-Gameday-Eats

You cannot focus the flame to a bright, blue, pointed cone with a Bic.

Here is a nifty "hobby torch" for detail work:


Rip ...

Thanks RIP, obviously my knowledge of modern cooking leaves something to be desired.