So, I am shooting my new .458 win mag and I am getting used to it's satisfying "whump" in my shoulder when it goes off. And the whump at the dirt bank. I am consistently hitting clay pidgeons thrown on the dirt bank at 35 and 50 yards off hand or with a shooting stick. But the shooting for groups is giving me trouble as I am just not used to a gun that jumps around like this. Is there a best way, or usual way to dial in one of these things?
If I was testing another rifle I would pull the stock into my shoulder just enough to be comfortable. I would use my left hand only to adjust the vertical and horizontal screws on my rest. If I could I would get my right arm and shoulder out of it too, just touch the trigger after I got it dialed in. Not with this gun.
Can I hear how you guys get the testing done, so you can get on to shooting? Do you bolt the thing down? I'll spend a fortune in ammo before I can be consistent in grabbing it and clamping it to the rest with my hand.
Thanks.

Buy some 350gr. Hornadys and load them down. Use them to get used to your gun. Go shoot a shotgun with some heavy loads for a while. Work your way up on this and stop trying to step up to this level of recoil before you are ready for it. With a little work you will make it if you are determined. Most people who want to can go way beyond this level with careful determined training.

I started using the 385 grain cast loads at about 1500fps. Then wored them up in speed. Once you are comfortable with the rifle, you can move to 405 remingtons at 2000 fps, then to the 500's at full power. After the rifle is sighted in and the loads developed, I go back to the light to medium loads. Then hunt with the power level needed for the game. It won't break you to shoot it and you will be relaxed and not worried about recoil. This only works if you can load your own ammo of course.

Frank,

In your case, with all that I have read about your odyssey, I would suggest a lead sled for shooting the rifle from the bench. Buy two twenty five pound bags of shot and use what ever it takes to get the rifle shooting where you want it. Then stand back up and go back to shooting the way you would in the field.

Joe

So from our AR poll of where Buff are shot, its absolutely clear that on game your longest shot will be 75 yrds. More likely < 50. Shoot offhand at paper plates and dont bother with the rest or bench. If you must, a 25lb bag of lead shot between you and the gun will help a great deal.-Rob

I'd skip the bench unless you're going to take it with you in the field.
Recoil will change your groups as much as anything else.
Unless you're set of having the rifle look like an antique in a museum, I'd do a little work to it.
Add a muzzle brake. If it's an open sight gun, port the barrel on each side of the front sight. These will work wonders.
In addition, remove the recoil pad from the stock and have a recoil reducer thrown in there. One the pad is installed again nobody will ever know it's there.
Those two things will make the gun FAR more pleasant to shoot.
A muzzle brake alone allowed me to run more than 300 rounds of 300 WM (190 gr bullets at 3100 fps) in one weekend with no tenderness or even the slightest bruising.

Work your loads up as the others have suggested. Get comfortable with the gun and life will be much easier. You will also spend more time behind the trigger.

Before I got a lead sled or did anything to my gun I would change my shooting style off of the bench. You need to have the same "weld" between you and the rifle for each shot. You need to hold the forend of the rifle firmly in your left hand (if it's a right hand gun) with firm consistent downward pressure. You must be consistent with the pressure from shot to shot.

I went from not being able to even sight in my rifle to shooting .7" groups with it after I changed how I was holding it at the range.

That said, once you have finished load development and sighted your rifle in. Stay off of the bench! lol

Regards,

Chuck

Not buffalo season in Va. Comming into groundhog season. And the tasty ones have a head about the size of a tennis ball. I can get to under 100 yds, but I need the gun to shoot straight.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
So from our AR poll of where Buff are shot, its absolutely clear that on game your longest shot will be 75 yrds. More likely < 50. Shoot offhand at paper plates and dont bother with the rest or bench. If you must, a 25lb bag of lead shot between you and the gun will help a great deal.-Rob

Frank, my routine involves setting up orange clay pigeons at various ranges (20-100 yards), I started with my 375 & 416 (and soon to be Lott)with reduced loads, worked my way up to full house hunting loads. I shoot them from ALL the field positions I can think of (and will soon be getting a set of shooting stix). Its amazing the level of consistency one can achieve doing this.
For my smaller than 375 rifles, I walk around a gopher pasture with a 22 & another rifle. I have a pocket full of balloons & a pocket full of marbles. I drop a marble in the balloon, then blow it up to approximate the size of the Heart/lung zone on a Deer/Elk etc. As I walk around shooting gophers with the 22, I will drop a balloon, continue this until I have balloons scattered at different ranges from about 50-200 yards, then proceed to use field positions and explode balloons (yes I pick up the deflated balloons)........works for me

FWIW I too have a lead sled, they're alright for initial sight-in (I'm leery to use it with nice wood though), once I have my load developed and sighted in, I'm done with the bench.

Ah ha! I see a pattern. I think I've got it.

So there is 1) getting everything in place and holding on to everything to make it stay put, kind of an isometric pressure. THen,there is 2) getting everything in place and leaning into the stock with my shoulder. My theory is that #2 causes the gun to stay put during recoil and so it is consistent. Where #1 allows the rifle to move during recoil. The method of hold is subtle but very different.z

Testing will tell me if I am right. And a better rest is going to help a lot.

Here is how I can shoot my 416 Rem mags up to 150 times in a day.I did it after I shot my 338s 300 times that same day.I shoot standing with a milk crate on top of the bench.I put a 60 pound bull basg that grips the rifle.I use two past pads the thickest ones.I reduced my loads in the 416 rem mag.I shot 350 gr 2400 fps.I also pust tight with my laft arm and let the right one roll.Read Elmer Keith if you want to find out how he did it too.I use to not be able to handle a 30-06 for long.I like medium heavy barrels also.If you load the 458 to 45-70 loads it will be mild too.I hardly shoot full house loads but I do when I hunt stuff that bites.Its not as bad as you think.My 416 pops my back .Its like a free trip to the chirpractor!!.

recoil is just part of it, you have more barrel time in the big boys also.. Your form must be like any sport, if your stance, shoulder pressure, angle of fire, foot spread/positon, anything changes your impact will change more than with a .222 rifle.. Start off with a .22 long rifle and see what you can do with that. I suspect your form is lacking. A flintlock fullstock with 42 inch barrel would be excelent offhand practice. It forces you to use form. .45/70 with black powder is also tough to shoot. Shoot 50 rounds with .22 rifle a day until you get into good form. Look for 3 inch groups at 50 yards with the .22.. You maynot get there but with a good rifle and good form it shuldnt be impossible for you.. Search the net and start taking notes on proper rifle offhand form.. (if your rifle is under 10-11 pounds in a big bore your fighting a tough battle)
dave

This is very helpful. Quite a while back I decided there were things I wanted to learn.And I chose my path for learning. I bought a 300 Win mag and the necessary gear and competed in 1000 yd competition. I learned a lot. And I learned a lot about what I didn't know.
And so my next path was .22 rim fire silhouette competition. I think you already know the ins and outs of this. I got to where I could keep up with the grown ups at local matches. Not at all a serious competition level shooter, but my skills would be considered impossible by the local deer hunters. And the skills of top level competitors seemed impossible to me. But I learned what I wanted to. It is a total blast to shoot soda cans off hand at 200 yds with a rimfire.
But now I need a new path. I will search as you suggest. This big bore is loads of fun, I would like to get good at it.
Thanks for the help.
Yeah, barrel time, that's what I was thinking. And my rifle is a bit light.

quote:

Originally posted by ffffg:
recoil is just part of it, you have more barrel time in the big boys also.. Your form must be like any sport, if your stance, shoulder pressure, angle of fire, foot spread/positon, anything changes your impact will change more than with a .222 rifle.. Start off with a .22 long rifle and see what you can do with that. I suspect your form is lacking. A flintlock fullstock with 42 inch barrel would be excelent offhand practice. It forces you to use form. .45/70 with black powder is also tough to shoot. Shoot 50 rounds with .22 rifle a day until you get into good form. Look for 3 inch groups at 50 yards with the .22.. You maynot get there but with a good rifle and good form it shuldnt be impossible for you.. Search the net and start taking notes on proper rifle offhand form.. (if your rifle is under 10-11 pounds in a big bore your fighting a tough battle)
dave

Watch this video and see if it gives you any ideas.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI-xGYkLOc4


Control the rifle so you're comfortable with it and your shooting skills will improve dramatically.