got a few 2 bore questions

Is 5 ounce's to light of load for the 2 bore -2185 grains .Well im really thing 2 gauge not 2 bore rifle .I seen Colin's underlever nice looking gun .I was thinking though at 22 lbs 28" single barrel .how much would a sxs with let say 35" or and 40" (shotgun) barrels would weigh . Hoping in the 30-35 pound range with 5 ounces of shot @ 1200 fps being very manigable for me .Would a 8 or 4 gauge or bore be a better build ?.I dont ever plan to shoot solids just to take it on guided goose hunt in scottland or UK

I'll let you know in about 2 1/2 - 3 years. That's about the time frame I am estimating for completing the SxS 2 Bore rifle with 28" barrels that I have been commissioned to build. I'll let you know what it weighs and then you can estimate from there.

If you want my guess now, I'm going to guess that the rifle is probably going to weigh about 30 pounds when it's finished.

A 2 gauge shotgun with 40" barrel would probably go 35+ pounds, and be so heavy/muzzle heavy to be almost useless except as a mounted punt gun.

Colin

Tk, my take is a 2 bore shotguns main two purposes are.

1.Running a shotload far in excess of what anything else can. Eg up to 7-8 oz.

or

2. Saying you have a 2 bore.

Which are good reasons, but if you are into waterfowling and your goal is set up around a lighter shotload, the 4 bore may be a better choice. Lighter, smaller and Colin will verify but chances are you can squeeze 4.5 oz+ into a 4 bore anyhow..

The 4 bore will be easier, cheaper and faster to get together and shooting. The 8 bore even more so. But if you want a 2 bore and have the $ and time, go for it.

quote:

Originally posted by Karl:
Tk, my take is a 2 bore shotguns main two purposes are.

1.Running a shotload far in excess of what anything else can. Eg up to 7-8 oz.

or

2. Saying you have a 2 bore.

Which are good reasons, but if you are into waterfowling and your goal is set up around a lighter shotload, the 4 bore may be a better choice. Lighter, smaller and Colin will verify but chances are you can squeeze 4.5 oz+ into a 4 bore anyhow..

You can get 4+ oz in a 4 Bore, especially if you are using 4" cases and the powder charge will be similar to a 2 bore charge.

One of the things that a lot of people fail to understand about 8,6,4 and 2 Bores is that the loads aren't double for each greater bore diameter.

If you look at the load data form an 8 bore and a 4 bore the charge on the 4 Bore is not twice the load the 8 bore is even though the projectile weight is doubled. Same applies to a 2 Bore, the powder charges used in 2 Bores are not twice the charge used in a 4 Bore.

Just for example, a lot of the 8 bores(roundball muzzleloaders usually) I build for customers are sighted for 300 grain FFg, the 4 Bores are usually set up for 450gr FFg and the 2 Bores are set up for 500gr FFg. On paper you would think that the charge would get doubled and you would have a 600gr charge for the 4 Bore(ouch) and if the same was applied to the 2 Bore that would be 1200gr FFg. 1200gr FFg behind a 1/2 pound of shot or ball in even a 30+ pound gun is going to be a bone breaker and may even be lethal for the shooter.

This is just my personal opinion and has nothing to do with what I build or am willing to build for customers(I obviously shoot everything up to 2 Bore, I have to do load development and sight in work)but, my personal preference in a top end Big Bore(shotgun or rifle) would be an 8 Bore(I own 2, 1 ML, 1 Cartridge gun). The 8 Bore was tried and true in Africa on big dangerous game, the guns are light enough to be carried afield without wearing down the shooter(10 to 13 pounds in a single shot), they carried plenty of killing power(lots of Elephants fell to the 8 Bore prior to smokeless powder), and the recoil is very tolerable(I compare mine to a slow push version of my 458WM). So if it was me looking for a goose gun and wanted to go big bore, I would probably be seeking an 8 Bore SxS. That's just my opinion and has nothing to do with the cool factor of owning and shooting 4 and 2 Bore guns.

Colin

I really like the 4,8 bores better .Does anyone know besides colin of bespoke gun makers colin and westely richards are the only two i know and have talked to who build 8 bores well there is this german guy buy i lost his name and he had good prices. I tell people these guns are not crazy to buy because they last forever lol

there are quite a few guys who can do muzzleloaders in bore guages, and prices only a few thousand or so.

As soon as you want breechloaders, price goes up by multiples. Allen myers UK and Owens if he is still kicking could do SXS bore shotguns at half way to WR prices. Colin is one of the few guys who somehow keeps them at entry level double rifle prices. I don't know anyone who would come close to his bang for the buck so to speak.

For a single shot other options are Ed Hubels's creations or even a custom FB single shot- a few guys are making them in 700nitros under 10 grand.Its concievable they could do an 8 bore smoothbore.

lastly the brits bore out a lot of factory 10bores to 8 bore- greylag, Aya matador etc. Any UK gun forum has them for sale at a grand or two.
Regards,
Karl

I talked to a custom muzzle loader guy before but he said he couldnt do a sxs. And i dont know how people he look at sxs as much as i do but i like how they go from a very small taper at the muzzle to a larger taper at the chamber i hate straight cylinder taper .I need to get a caliper and make some measurements to see what would be a good thickness for 8 ga barrels.and talk about boring out 10 ga barrels i know the zabala 213 10 ga which still being made has probably the thickest barrels for a 10 ga and still have a nice taper which would make them good for a 8 ga project but after boring it out could it still have some choke left to it or ould it be cylinder bore and would 7,000 psi loads be okay which are standard bp 8 ga 3 1/4 " 3 oz loads

The Zabala in 10 ga I had wasn't thick enough out at the end
for 8ga, only measuring .970" od at muzzle.That is why we use
heavy bull barrel 10ga NEFs to bore as they are 1.070" at
muzzle. In the 12GA FH thread you can see particulars and
Rob used a Zabala to monoblock in heavy 12ga rifled
barrels for a 12GA FH African double.Ed

these look about thick as the chamber on my h&r 10 ga. well if not do they look thick enough to have threaded for choke tube like browning invector plus 10 ga ?

Is that double in pic a Zabala. It looks heavy
but measuring is only way. The bore on an 8ga
is .835", so if muzzle is less than an inch
it makes for thin sides. And what is the exact od
of those barrels at the muzzle.

The outside of the chamber of a NEF 10ga 3.5"
and 12ga Ultra, on the SB2 10ga/12ga Ultra frame measures
1.200+ inches od.Ed

I remember Ed and I were checking a few a couple years back and the American Arms 10 ga SXS Turkey special had about the heaviest barrels to play with in SXS. The brits who do the double conversions all the time never go above 2.5 oz loads though.

If you have money to spare check this site as they often turn up 4" case 8 bore shotguns from time to time.They throw a 3.5oz payload. http://www.guntrader.co.uk/GunsForSale/

Karl.