The three suppliers of 404 Jeffrey barrels (.423" or .424") I know of are my favorite, Krieger, and Lilja and Lothar Walther. No matter who I choose, it will be a wait. No news there. Are there any other sources?

I'm using a Lothar Walther for a 404Jeff. It is my understanding that they are under new management and are more responsive to orders.

I have a Lothar Walther CM .423-14",Ø=1.26", L=26.18", #5130 "Mauser Type E" 26" w/System98 thread, cut down to 24" if you like a light weight 404. The muzzle is .626 (.626 - .423 / 2 = .1015 wall thickness).

Thanks for the heads ups fellows. I will take a harder look at the Lothar Walther. I am glad that woody is gone. That prick lived to piss in peoples Post Toasties.

I will likely use a Winchester Classic action. That might be easier than bronc riding a Mauser into submission. Thank you.

Lothar Walthar is the only barrels I use as a rule, with an ocassional Douglas if Im needing it in a week, I order those from Brownells, however Brownells has certain Lothar Barrels in stock with no waiting period..

IN addition to those mentioned, Pac nor has it in CM or stainless & the groove is .423 x .415 lands w/ 8 weeks delivery. McGowan has it in CM or stainless & groove is .425 x .416 lands w/ 10 to 12 weeks delivery. Douglas groove is .421 & not sure of lands.
I went with Pac nor on a Montana 1999 set up for Ultra Mag. & am very pleased w/ the rifle. It shoots moa at 100 w/ just about anything you feed it. Will see what it & North Forks will do to Buff. in May.

What about Pacnor.

I have a couple of Pacnor barrels and they all shoot better than I can !

I have this affinity for cut rifled barrels. Always have. I have owned on Lilja, however.
Put it on a Ruger 77 (first iteration); a 22-250 that I converted to .308. Incredibly accurate. A buddy uses it as the rental rifle for Whisky Mountain Outfitters. They call it the stealth Sniper rifle.

I will give them a look. I will accept a long lead time to get the right barrel.

BY THE WAY, iS THE MCGOWAN bUTTON, OR CUT RIFLED? DOES THE .425" BARREL HAVE GAS LEAKAGE ISSUES. MY NORTH fORK BULLETS ARE NO FAMOUS FOR HAVING EXCELLENT OBTURATION. sORRY FOR THE SHOUTING, I'M FALLING ASLEEP. THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL THE HELP.

I had two 404 Jeffery rifle made with Lothar-Walthar barrels. Both have performed well!

Only other option I would suggest would be to buy a Mauser M03 with a 404 Jeffery barrel. You can have a good, accurate rifle you can shoot a lot quicker than waiting on one to be built!

I'm sorry, did you ask a question? I don't know what her twist rate or chambering is, but I'm a fan.

http://pac-nor.com/barrels/

.423" groove for Pac-Nor,
3-groove 1:9" twist
9-groove 1:14" twist

I will call later and ask them their bore diameter.

McGowen barrel specs:



Twists offerred by McGowen for this barrel: 10", 12", 14" and all are 6-grooved.

My McGowen is indeed .425"-grooved (slugged by me at .4245"), 6-grooved, 1:10" twist, button rifled, stainless.
I chose a No. 4 sporter contour that is .700" diameter at the 24" muzzle, .650" diameter at 28" length.
I would go no lighter, on my M70.

I have a CZ-USA "custom shop" 404 Jeffery too, rom the first batch they put out, on the 550 Magnum action.
Slickest feeding sixshooter (5 + 1) possible.
The only way to beat it would be with a seven-shooter (6 + 1).

CZ-USA used the chrome-moly version on the CZ factory 404J rifles early on, with integral bases machined by McGowen.
Don't know if CZ is still using them.

Mine worked well with North Fork, and any and all .423"-.424" bullets.

That said, I am going to get a .423"-grooved barrel and re-barrel a CZ 550 Magnum to 404 Jeffery,
just so I can get higher pressures and velocities with the slower powders,
like Ray does.

I'll keep the Winchester M70 with the "loose" McGowen barrel.
It is a wonderful "African Sheep Rifle" at 8.5 pounds bare and empty.

I have to use the likes of Varget and RL-15 in the loose barrel.
Varget 83.0 grains was required to get the 380-grain North Fork up to a low-pressure, accurate 2526 fps for "buffalo killin'."

Also a good load in the loose McGowen 24" 1:10" twist barrel:
.423"/400-gr Woodleigh RNSP crimped on cannelure
80.0 grains Varget >>> 2401 fps

I have used Norma brass and Fedweral GM215M primer on all my tested loads.

For the .423"-grooved barrel, I will be using less powder.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

Per telephone call today:
Standard Pac-Nor 404 Jeffery barrel:
.423" groove.
.415" bore.
They seem to have got that right.
Why the odd number of grooves I do not know.

1:14" twist, 9-groove, for factory loads and hotrod handloading.
1:9" twist, 3-groove, for the guy who wanted to be different, and paid for the tooling that Pac-Nor still has.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

Thanks RIP,
The Pac-Nor might be just the ticket. I don't know why the Krieger has a 1:16" twist. I have to wonder how the woodleigh 450s, ala Norma would do out of that barrel.

I do well when I follow my older doctor brother around.

Yep, the Norma 450-grain bullet is of Woodleigh .422" diameter make.

That will do well in a .423"-grooved barrel of 1:14" twist.

Pac-Nor .423-groove, 1:14" twist is my pick too, even with 9 grooves.

My McGowen poops out with below-.423"-diameter bullets.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

I had a Douglas on a .404 I had, and one on one of my 10.75x68's. Both were/are excellent.

Well, seems I already have a Douglas No.4 Sporter/.410"-groove/.400"-bore/6-groove/1:14"-twist/stainless barrel.

I must use that before I get a Pac-Nor No.4 Sporter/.423"-groove/.415"-bore/9-groove/1:14"-twist/stainless barrel.

My wildcatting days are done (we can only hope and pray) after this one:



It occurred to me that since I had good results with a .425"-grooved McGowen using .423-caliber bullets,
then a .410"-grooved Douglas with an aggressive groove depth to .400" bore diameter might do well with .408-caliber bullets!

It will surely do well squeezing down the .411-caliber GSC bullets to .410-caliber, whether in the barrel on firing or sized before firing.

I have grown accustomed to sizing down Barnes .416-caliber TSX 400-grainers and TTSX 350-grainers to .411 and .408
(I have to take them down to .406" to get them to spring back to .408", etc.).

This is a TRUE 400-BORE: .410/404 Jeffery Justified.

Justified by the multiplicity of bullets that can be used.
Also by correction back to what the 404 Jeffery started out to be in "old cordite" days.
It would have been a rimless version of the .400 S Jeffery aka 450/400 Nitro Express 3-Inch,
if the old cordite could have kept pressures down.

In 1905, they had to enlarge the bullet caliber to keep pressures down to a design parameter of 17 of their tons per square inch, IIRC,
with a 400-grainer at 2200 fps from a 24" barrel.

But by 1912 the catalog was claiming 400-grainers at 2400 fps with
"... the new Flat Strip High Velocity Cordite, which gives about 2400 feet per second with rather less pressure than that shown by the old pattern."





My (im)possibly final wildcat is "JUSTIFIED."




Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

All my Lothar Walther barrels were 1x16 and that's the twist Ive had the best luck with over a 40 plus year habit of the 404 J..It shoots all weights extremely well, and LW barrels seem to get me a bit more velocity.

As stated in earlier post & confirmed by RIP, PacNor barrel is .423/.415. The 14 twist of my barrel works with all bullet weights & it is especially happy with Northforks & Peregrines.
I use #5 contour barrels on just about everything but with the 404 I went with #6 after checking weight estimates. I found that the 404 #6 is the same weight as the 375 #5. I use breaks for load development with the larger bores & then install a thread protector & it stays that way for the duration. The #6 allows more material for muzzle thread. Mine is threaded 11/16x32 w/ 1/2" in tenion.
I have an order in to PacNor now for another 404 barrel to match the one I have now.

Another source for a .423 barrel is Dan Pederson. His barrels are cut rifled & I have an associate that uses his barrels & been very pleased with them. I do not know his delivery schedule.

375 Sunrise
I have a .330 Dakota on a 1999 Montana with an Ultra mag length magazine. It has never been hunted with and has an Accurate Innovations stock of Turkish that is nice. Someone could have a .404 Jeff by having it bored and chambered. It would be very inexpensive.
Thought since you were in Texas too you might know of someone. I am near Wichita Falls.

Muleskinner

Mulerider,
Please PM me concerning this as I have someone interested.

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your very valued insights.
Right now, I am planning on a #4 or #5 Pac-Nor, as Krieger is eight months out!
Rip, Why not use your barrel to mate it up with a Ruger Number one? No wildcat there.
I will check on Mr. Pedersen's barrels, and check the lead times....I do like Cut Rifled barrels, nothing but the best for my heirs.
I have a Winchester Express stock coming. It is straight grained, and perfect for its use.
Bro' Rip, What brand of fiberglass/carbon fiber/kevlar/mojo stocks are you using for your CZ rifles?
They look functional, and comfortable. Do they have any cast off and/or toe out?
All of your comments are very much appreciated boys.
Thank you,
'dart

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your very valued insights.
Right now, I am planning on a #4 or #5 Pac-Nor, as Krieger is eight months out!

Good selection. #4 if stock is less than 2.5 lbs. #5 if stock is over 2.5 pounds.
Use +/- barrel length and/or +/- weight to stock as needed if you find your self on a cusp for balancing something different.

Rip, Why not use your barrel to mate it up with a Ruger Number one? No wildcat there.

I assume you mean the Douglas .410/.400.
Well, I have Ruger No. 1's out the whazoo already, from 6.5 Creedmoor to 500 A-Square,
plus a 20 Gauge Ex Purgatorio RMC 3.5" still working off its sins in Gunsmith Purgatory.
That includes a 450/400 NE 3-Inch (.400 S Jeffery) Ruger No. 1 that is .410-grooved.
About the only thing I might want to do with a Ruger No. 1 now is to put an octagon barrel on one,
and an old Remington "Rough and Ready" combo rear sight with a Beach combo front sight
(Like on the 50-70 Govt Rolling Block sporting rifle that General Custer had in his hands before he "jerked his pistols.").
Then figure out how to do a Creedmoor/Soule long range sight set up too, on a 50-140-777 3.25".

As for casting aspersions upon a wildcat, I think nothing of it.
When one is as deep into them as I am, I just need to rebarrel one of my duplications.
Another take-off-switch-barrel whatever added, "parts is parts," no new rifles pillaged. I got it covered,
especially for something as special as a .410/404 Jeffery Justified and a .500 Buhmiller.

Bro' Rip, What brand of fiberglass/carbon fiber/kevlar/mojo stocks are you using for your CZ rifles?

CZ Kevlar, now CZ Aramid, or same stock now direct from Bell & Carlson, without the middleman markup.


They look functional, and comfortable. Do they have any cast off and/or toe out?

There is some obvious toe-out and a palm swell for right trigger hand gripping.
Yes very comfortable, fits me perfectly when I add a little L.O.P. with a slip-on leather pad.
LOP also depends on replacement non-set trigger vs, OEM CZ set-trigger.
Easy enough to live with for a riflecrank like me.

I'll stick a Pac-Nor .423-grooved barrel on a CZ, after I get the above two wildcats done.
"Long live the wildcat," as P.O. Ackley said.
Vulcan spread-finger salute would accompany that if Mr. Spock were quoting P.O. Ackley.


Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

Thanks for sharing, I will install the single stage trigger, and M-70 style safety. The bolt has a date to get straightened, and have its orifice welded closed. `Then I strengthen, and bed it in the take off stock I got from AHR for a very reasonable cost.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:
Well, seems I already have a Douglas No.4 Sporter/.410"-groove/.400"-bore/6-groove/1:14"-twist/stainless barrel.

I must use that before I get a Pac-Nor No.4 Sporter/.423"-groove/.415"-bore/9-groove/1:14"-twist/stainless barrel.

My wildcatting days are done (we can only hope and pray) after this one:

....[QUOTE]


Any desire to sell that Douglas No. 4? Feeling the 400Whelen itch again....

Rip,
What is your favorite model 70 type safety assembly to use on you CZs?

PWS,
Douglas only took 5 days to get one to me from a telephone order. I hope the quality is as good as my past experience with them.
Give them a call.
I will do my next 400 Whelen with one of those too.

'dart,
Ed Lapour safeties and Timney triggers.
That is what is going to be on my .410/404 Jeffery.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

I have been making the 404 Jeffery with a .410 groove barrel for many years; that is the way it should have been from the start. Can't use factory ammo though. Below is one just finished. And I use only Douglas barrels; great barrels with zero drama in getting them. They are bigger than any of the others and keep a huge stock of blanks on hand. I have been there.
They don't make a .423 groove one though.

RiP,
I have an Ed Lapour safety on my 9.3x64, very smooth & sweet. I have never used a Timney trigger, but I am an old dog who learns new tricks every day.

dpcd,
That is a fine looking rifle. Too bad they don't have drama free barrels in .423" bore diameter. Drama is only for college girls, and ex wives. Your gun lines just flow.

lawndart,
You old dog! I thought everyone had used a Timney trigger!

dpcd,
You are my source for the tip on the Douglas .410/.400 barrel, thank you very much.

You should have had your dog lying beside the rifle.
Lacking the ability to Photoshop my dog onto that carpet beside your rifle,
I have taken the liberty to crop off some carpet, hit the "autocorrect" tab in the editor, and add a "caption.":




That is the first .410/404 Jeffery rifle I have ever seen a picture of, and it is a beauty!

Are you the gunsmith who created that work of art?

Do you just use 450/400 NE 3-Inch dies to neck down 404 Jeffery brass, and blow the shoulder out to about a tenth of an inch
farther from the base,
and about a hundredth of an inch smaller diameter shoulder, than on the 404 Jeffery?

Approximately what max brass length and neck length have you settled on for your .410/404 Jeffery wildcat?

There is more than one way to skin a cat, especially a wildcat!

Do you have a cartridge drawing?
A chamber reamer drawing?

I am not sure of specs on the 450/400 NE 3-Inch. I fear running into all kinds of variations on that one too.

My safest bet would be to go with Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading 10th Edition for the cartridge drawings,
and handloading dies for the 450/400NE3",
but what chamber reamer fits the Hornady 450/400 NE 3-Inch dies?

I notice that Hornady has "simplified" to 8-degree shoulder angles for both the 404J and 450/400NE3",
but that ain't quite right by C.I.P.
Close enough!!!

And, is Hornady 404 Jeffery Brass interchangeable with Norma 404 Jeffery brass for a 404 Jeffery and/or your wildcat?

That last item will be applicable to Bro'dart's thread, less of a highjack.
My 404 Jeffery brass is all Norma.
I need to get acquainted with Hornady 404 Jeffery brass.

Thanks for posting that work-of-art rifle,
especially interesting to me because of its wildcat chambering.


Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

I just realized that I can neck down a 404 Jeffery case in a 450/400NE3" FL die and go fire it in a Ruger No.1 chambered for 450/400NE3".
Knock the fire-formed case out with a rod since it lacks a rim for extraction.

I can also fire the same load as above in a .416 Dakota Winchester M70 on hand.

Will do and see which case talks sweetest to me.
Something more like "A" or more like "B"?








Above excerpts from the Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading Tenth Edition
are for book review purposes.
Book review: Good book.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

Load A looks more reliable in the feeding department, but either one should work just fine.

SKIN A WILDCAT, you should be ashamed of that pun (I wish I thought of it first).

Some people whittle wood. When I was bored at the squadron, I would take triggers apart, and polish triggers, sears, and or/ hammers between spits of skoal into a Dixie cup. Most of my rifles have been Sakos, so I never needed new triggers, and the Remingtons always stoned up in a jiff. I was much more careful with the Sako triggers. When I was nineteen, I discovered that a standard M-16 trigger could not be stoned into a decent unit without having a run-a-way gun. Now I have RRA match triggers, and Geissele SSA-E, and also Geissele Match triggers. I use Swift Blackburn triggers in Mausers. What should I use a Timney in?

I use Ed Labour's safeties exclusively in Mausers.

400 grains at .410" diameter prolly penetrates deeper than at .424" diameter. dpcd has the reamer, and you already know he whittles a nice stock.

Well hell's bells! I guess I will have to have one of each.

John "Pondoro" Taylor, great expert on the big bores that he was (do not allow the gossip to cloud acceptance of his undeniable brilliance),
said that the 450/400 NE 3" aka .400 S. Jeffery was "unexcelled in penetration amongst the double rifle calibers."
Even the small bore afficianado W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell praised the .400 S. Jeffery.
Elmer Keith too.
If such disparate characters as these praise it so highly ...

And, it was probably conceived in 1896, and beat the 450 NE 3-1/4" in the full Nitro Express timeline of origin.
Jeffery had to get special heavier/thicker brass made for it, with thicker rim than on the 450 NE 3-1/4" Thin Rim.
That hot new .400 S. Jeffery was making waves in 1897, shooting at exhibitions, etc.
400-grainers at 2200 fps!
Lawsy mercy! William Jackman Jeffery was the pioneer that Newton and Weatherby emulated!

Sad that he died young in 1909. But his 404 Jeffery was selling by 1905. Probably worked on that in 1904 or earlier.
Maybe the "+40 Jeffery of '04" is another reason it is called a "404 Jeffery," plus being a
40+ 4-shooter of 1905.

Anyway, William Jackman Jeffery was long gone to the Happy Hunting Ground when nepotism at W.J. Jeffery & Co. produced the 500 Jeffery.
I am sure W.J.J. was set spinning in his grave by that abomination!

As you were:

A. The "Aboriginal" .400 S. Jeffery Rimless:

1. Use current 450/400 NE 3-Inch brass with rim turned down and extractor groove cut, Hornady brass, Hornady reloading dies, and reamer to match.
Use 404 Jeffery shellholder.
Done.
Simplest of all except for needing lathe work on the brass.

2. Use 404 Jeffery brass (2.875" max length) necked down and fire-formed in a Ruger No.1 450/400NE3".
Trim to uniform and square the case mouths.
Blowing the shoulder forward in fire-forming will likely shorten the brass,
even though necking it down to .410-caliber from .423 lengthened it a little before fire-forming.
That brass might turn out to be as short as 2.800" to 2.850".
If it is, bullet will have a huge jump from case mouth across an extra .150" to .200" of empty chamber neck to START of throat.
Plenty of wobble room for the bullet before entering throat, in theory,
how does it work in practice?
So a short necked reamer will be needed.
I would not want to use the 3.0" cartridge's reamer for a 2.8" cartridge that differs only by having a shorter neck.
That would be like using a .458 Lott reamer for a .458 WinMag-Only rifle.
Also, the standard 3.0" reloading die set will have to have a make-do crimp die added for the 2.8" case.
Edit: OK, forgot the rim thickness of .065" that will not be pushed into a bolt action rifle chamber. Subtract that from the discrepancy.

B. The .410/404 Jeffery Justified:

1. a.) Use new, Norma-made, 404 Jeffery brass. FL size in 404 Jeffery FL die. Use neck expander but no belling of case mouth.
If using once-fired brass, anneal neck and shoulder first.
b.) Trim to uniform length and square case mouths, leaving it as long as possible (2.865"-2.875"), and lightly chamfer.
c.) Neck up to .458 using an RCBS universal .375-.458 neck expander. Brass length will decrease, but this allows for a more positive fire-forming shoulder.
d.) Neck down and establish fire-forming shoulder by FL sizing in a Redding .416 Dakota FL die with expander ball removed.
Brass length will increase.
Make sure they are all no more than 2.850", trim and uniform if any are over 2.850."
e.) Anneal necks, again.
f.) With the greater neck wall thickness of the Norma 404 Jeffery brass, it is now perfect for accepting a .410-caliber/210-grain Hornady XTP pistol bullet for fire-forming.
g.) Fire-rorm.
h.) Measure case, hope for trim-to length of 2.840", to uniform and square the case mouths.
i.) Future reloading of the perfected cases uses a Redding .416 Dakota die set with addition of a .410-expander plug instead of .416.
j.) Get wildcat chamber reamer exactly like the JGS .416 Dakota reamer except for throat reduced to fit .410-caliber bullets instead of .416-caliber.

2. There ain't no two ways about it.

The only item that is not "off the shelf" I need is a chamber finish reamer for the .410/404 Jeffery Justified.


SUMMARY:

A. .400 S. Jeffery Rimless:
Get custom lathe work done to turn rimmed into rimless cartridge brass, or get a custom reamer.
or
B. .410/404 Jeffery Justified:
Get a custom reamer.

What a RIP-off!



1. 450 Nitro Express 3-1/4", Dummy with HDS brass.

2. 450/400 NE 3" live cartridge made by Kynoch, but obviously different from Hornady next to it.

3. 450/400 NE 3" (.400 "S" Jeffery NE) factory loaded by Hornady.

4. 450/400 NE 3" new, unfired case from Hornady.

5. .410/404 Jeffery Aboriginal, pre-fire-forming: 404 Jeffery Norma brass FL sized in RCBS 450 NE 3-1/4",
then necked down in Redding .416 Dakota FL die.

6. .410/404 Jeffery Righteous, pre-fire-forming:
404 Jeffery Norma brass FL sized in Hornady 450/400 NE 3" die.

7. 404 Jeffery Norma brass, once-fired.

8. .410/400-grain Hornady bullet (400 CAL .410 400 GR FMJ/RNI#4103)

9. A DWM 10.75x73mm brass case that was part-way shoved into a .375 WbyMag FL die
and topped with a Nosler ballistic tip to produce a rare, double-Weatherby-shouldered wildcat.

10. .375/404 Jeffery Saeed Copycat of 2012. Reloading dies by Hornady, chamber reamer by Dave Manson.

11. .410/404 Jeffery Justified: A 404 Jeffery Norma brass case that has been neck-sized
in a Redding .416 Dakota FL sizing die (expander ball removed),
needs trimming, then ready to fire-form to a shape like #12 shown next.

12. .410/.416 Dakota made with Dakota-brand .416 Dakota brass, FL sized with expander ball removed,
snuggly fits a .410 bullet, but not as nicely tight as when Norma 404 Jeffery brass is used as in #11 above.

13. .416 Dakota with a 400-gr Trophy Bonded Sledge Hammer solid.
Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

RIP,
Talk to dpcd. He has built many 410/404 rifles. He has the reamer, knows where to get the dies, and will do a bang up job for you. I am doing a traditional 404, because I am becoming traditional.(No, I can't say that with a straight face.)
Your 410/404 will give deeper penetration with its higher sectional density. Recoil might be a smidgen less. I feel downright stodgy just having a 9.3x70mm (DWM 569) made.

'dart,
Are you trying to take the fun out of skinning this cat?
I remind you, there is more than one way to skin a wildcat.
I am a wildcat fan, and a UK Wildcats fan.
That makes me a wildcatter for sure. Go 'Cats!
Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

Oh sorry RIP, that damnable practical streak poked its head up last night. I soundly thrash that streak at every opportunity, but sometimes he sneaks out. By all means get out the skinning knives. As always, I learn a lot about ballistics from your forays into the lands of wildcats. As a doctor, I was a pretty good ballistician.

So, what's it going to be: a long neck, and sloping shoulder, or a short neck, and a sharp shoulder?

I do not normally consort with Hornady brass. Don't they have their factory on Philistine Drive, in Valentine, Nebraska?

I do not normally consort with Hornady brass. Don't they have their factory on Philistine Drive, in Valentine, Nebraska?

I am going to have to get some Hornady brass for the 404 Jeffery and check neck diameters on loaded rounds before I get a reamer made,
now that I have this figured out:

Pre-fire-forming of 7 rounds each of A and B:



I used a .410/210-grain Hornady XTP with 75 grains of RL-7 fired in the Ruger No.1 400 S. Jeffery, with Norma 404 Jeffery brass,
and same bullet with 80 grains of RL-7 fired in a Winchester M70 .416 Dakota, a .410 bullet in a .416-grooved barrel was sufficient,
got the pressure up enough.



The bright, smooth rings on the brass are where the 404 Jeffery shoulder used to be.
Loaded dummies were tumbled in corn cob media:



I have seven rounds of loaded ammo polished up for each,
A: .410/404 Jeffery Rimless Nitro Express
B: .410/404 Jeffery Justified
so I can check feeding of 6 each of them through the "donor" rifle to be re-barreled,
and keep 1 each of them for lookin'at,
like the hard rock candy of Lone Watie.

A:



B:



A has shorter, .475"-long neck, longer, 2.875" overall brass length, and 2.1 grains-water lesser case capacity than B.

B has longer, .500"-long neck, shorter, 2.850" overall brass length, and 2.1 grains-water greater case capacity than A.

B's case capacity is identical to the 404 Jeffery, with shorter neck and brass overall length than the 404 Jeffery (BOaL, not COaL).

A has the shortest neck of all three, though still longer than bullet caliber by a lot,
and more body taper than all three.
It will out-slick the 404 Jeffery for feeding, if there is any significant difference,
besides bullet diameter.

Riflecrank Incurable Permanente

A one-shooter, this factory Ruger No.1 (450/400NE3-Inch aka .400 S. Jeffery) was used, not abused, to fire-form "A"
using a fat, brass, muzzleloader cleaning rod to push the rimless empties out:



I guesstimate pressure of the fire-forming load was less than 40,000 psi,
and the 210-grain bullet velocity was less than 2900 fps, with 75 grains of RL-7.
However, I bet a man could get the bullet MV over 3300 fps and vaporize the bullet shortly after muzzle exit,
if a man wished to impress. Impress whom I do not know.

A four-shooter (1 + 3) in current chambering,
this RUM-actioned Winchester M70 (.416 Dakota) was used, maybe abused, to fire-form "B."
It has a Douglas #5 sporter contour (1:12" twist), 24"-long, stainless barrel on it.
The .410/210-grain XTP bullet works at least as well as Cream-O-Wheat for fire-forming:



Here is the CZ 550 Magnum (.375/404JS-2012) that currently has a skinny Pac-Nor #3 sporter contour, stainless (1:10" twist), 25"-long barrel on it.
It will make a nice sixshooter (5 + 1), for either A or B:



I have another CZ 550 Magnum .375/404JS-2012 that has a Lilja #6 sporter contour, fluted, stainless (1:12" twist), 26"-long barrel on it.
I will eliminate a duplication of wildcats by rebarreling the skinny-barreled .375/404 (shown above)
with a #4 Douglas sporter, .410-grooved, .400-bored, 1:14" twist.

I think I am going to have to go with A, the ".410/404 Jeffery Rimless NE" firstly,
since it will make a slicker feeding sixshooter.

The #3 Pac-Nor take-off barrel might make a sporty 378 Weatherby.

Highjack off for real now, and back to OP:

Yep, #4 or #5 Pac-Nor sporter will make a fine 404 Jeffery for a traditionalist.

A rimmed version with .423-caliber bullet might be next.
A man might call it the ".423/400 S. Jeffery"
or
the ".423/404 Jeffery Flanged Nitro Express"
or ...

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