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| One of Us |
Next trip home I will start playing with my M70 416 Rem for a future buffalo hunt (2-3 years out) and am debating the 400 gr Partition or TBBC. Would appreciate hearing from those with experience using these bullets. | ||
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| One of Us |
I love Partitions for most game, but for a Buff go with Trophy Bondeds. | |||
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| One of Us |
400 gr. TBBCs and Swift A-frames are great choices. Also, consider Barnes TSX and CEB HP NonCon - 370 grainers. All will work when placed into the boiler room!! | |||
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One of Us |
I would recommend the TIPPED C.E.B. non-con or the 350 grain TSX at about 2600 fps. either will have more than enough penetration for buffalo. I still recommend backing up with solids. You can try the tipped 350 TTSX, too, but test them thouraoughly first. There has been some disturbing feedback on accuracy and tip stability. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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| One of Us |
Tanzan, I use the 350 TTSX in my 416 RUM. They have been the most accurate bullet I've used and the tips have been stable, even when in the magazine after one of their clones have been fired at 2850 fps - big time kick. I think they're fine and should be lethal on buffalo and, for that matter, everything else. The only other bullet as accurate has been the 370 gr. CEB NonCon HPs. Regards, AIU | |||
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One of Us |
I would recommend the tipped Non-Cons as long as they will fit in your magazine. If too long, I'd fall back on the Barnes TSX. Really can't go wrong with that one! | |||
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| One of Us |
There are several good choices today. I have had fantasic performance with North Forks and Barnes TSXs. Everyone has there own opinion and experience but if I was setting up a 416 just for buffalo or Elephant, I would go with a bit heavier bullet than the 350 grain...370s or 400 grain. I would avoid the plastic tips bullets unless I confirmed no issues, in my rifle...some guys have reported issues with the Barnes plastic tip bullets... I see no need in pushing velocity beyond 2400 fps in a DGR, just not needed..in anything 416 or above...with 370 / 400 grain bullets... Next on my list to try are the CEBs... | |||
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| One of Us |
With regard to Buffalo hunting,I would choose a Bullet that can serve its purpose is all circumstances on the Hunt.In my opinion, the 400 and 410 Grain Woodleigh Soft Point stands out.The round nose will resist deflection by brush and twigs much better than other bullets like the Swift A-Frame which has a dendency to be deflected in the African bush.This same fact applies to the Barnes X and TSX Bullets with a similar Ogive.I have lost a 60 inch Kudu shot from 40 yards with a .416 Rigby Swift A-Frame travelling at a MV of 2,400 fps,Reason:deflection by twigs.For solids for follow up shots and charges if needed, I would use the Barnes Banded Solid 400 grain from a bolt rifle modified to feed that flat nose solid properly.If your rifle is unable to feed this flat nose solid, I would reccomend the Woodleigh 410 Grain Solid as it too would give straight line penetration.Please keep your Nosler Partitions for American Game, its not too good for thick boned and thick skinned African Game.I hope you find this useful.I lead with 1 Woodleigh Soft point and follow that with Barnes Banded solids,last bullet is always a Woodleigh Solid because with 1 in the chamber and 3 in the magazine,the last should be a Woodleigh Solid for flawless feeding.You dont want a feeding jam on yourlast shot!.Barnes X and TSX's are ideal in a situation where their is no brush, grass or twig in the line of fire, but in the real world of Africa,ideal conditions are never guranteed,why look for "drama"?. | |||
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One of Us |
CEB 416 370 BBW#13 NonCon End of Story. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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| One of Us |
Hard to beat a M70 416 Rem for buffalo. Although I've settled on TSX's, any of a half dozen brands will do fine. I do not know which caliber or bullet is "best" for buffalo. I've shot them with guns from 300WinMag to 500NE. The 3 most important factors in buffalo hunting are 1)first shot placement, 2)where you hit them with the first shot, and 3)where they get hit with the first shot. Becoming overly distracted in trying to optimize loads, velocity, etc can be a detrimental distraction. My advice is to find a reasonable load that shoots well in your rifle and let it be. If you reload, get some lighter weight bullets and shoot softer loads which will allow you to practice more. Get or make some sticks. Get the hell off the bench and use the sticks. Most shooting in Africa is done off sticks. Know what you can and can't do with the sticks such that when you get in the field you'll be comfortable because you will KNOW where the bullet's going. Just my 2 cents worth. | |||
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| One of Us |
My .416 Rem LOVES the 350 Barnes TSX and the 400 gr banded solid. Same exact poi at 100 and at 50. I haven't tried the CEB's yet but they will be here next week for me to play with. I need to get with Srose or Michael 458 for load data and see what they do. If you get around to trying the Barnes, PM me and I will provide my load data. Varget powder works very well with the .416 | |||
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| One of Us |
I know this is a bit off subject, but I feel compelled to address the above statement. There is NO SUCH THING as a brush busting bullet. Many tests have been conducted over the years that show ALL bullets are going to be deflected by brush, and contrary to the above statement, these test found that IF a bullet was to find its way on to the target it was more likely to be a spitzer shaped bullet than a flat or round nose. The reason for this is gyroscopic stability. My own personal experience with this was on a buff in Zim a couple of years ago. My hunting partner shot a buff with his 416 Rigby with 350gr. TSX at about 2600 fps. His bullet hit a branch of 1.24" in diameter and still hit the buff that was standing a full 20-30 yards beyond. The great moral to this story is to use the best bullet for the animal, not a possible external scenario, and to make sure that your path to the target is clear. Lance | |||
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| One of Us |
Lance, there must be some correlation with bullet weight and the relative amount of deflection, all else being equal. It makes sense that 400 gr. TSX will deflect less than a 300 gr. TSX. But, you sound like you disagree. Please dilate on the subject. AIU | |||
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| One of Us |
Appreciate the replies. I am going to give the 400 gr A-Frame a go and see how she shoots. | |||
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| One of Us |
Both bullets you mentioned will the job done on buff, I personally like the Swift a-frames. I have noticed in times past in two different rifles that the Nosler bullets were more accurate than the TBBC's. "An individual with experience is never at the mercies of an individual with an argument" | |||
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| One of Us |
I have to say something on this as well. There is no such thing as a brush busting bullet. Sorry. That's an old wives tale that just isn't so! Also, "why look for 'drama'"? You're asking that question while advocating a 1) Woodleigh soft in the chamber, 2) Barnes Banded Solids in the mag except for the last one, and 3) a Woodleigh solid at the bottom for "flawless feeding"??!! 3 different loads on a DG hunt and your relying specifically on a Woodleigh Solid to ensure the last round feeds correctly? Just one comment; REALLY? I MEAN REALLY?? | |||
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| One of Us |
For 416's I would rather shoot a 350 TSX than a Woodleigh soft at a buffalo. Guaranteed deep penetration is the name of the game, no mater what gets in the way. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I absolutely agree that a longer, heavier, more aerodynamic bullet will deflect less. BUT, there is still no way to predict how much or how little the bullet will deflect. SO, make sure the path your bullet will take is clear of obstructions. Thanks, Lance | |||
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| One of Us |
I agree 100% to say Swift A frames are no good in the African bush is total nonsense.
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| One of Us |
Lance, thanks for the response - I appreciate it. No doubt it's best to have a shot clear of all obstructions, but SHIT HAPPENS, especially shooting Cape buffalo. What you think is a clear shot is not always clear, especially in the heat of the moment. This has happened to me and to many others posting on the board. With a clear shot to the vitals, accuracy is most important, but IMO, there is some advantage of shooting the larger bore bullets and heavy for caliber bullets. This is especially true when you have to root-out buffalo from the heavy bush. Follow-up shots, which occur frequently, are especially subject hitting "obstructions." Warm regard, AIU | |||
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| One of Us |
I have used 400gr Barnes X,2380fps, for 3years and can say that they are truly great for everything.I did not want to use them on Hippo for body shots but was forced to when i forgot my solids in a friends car.After using them on four hippos i can only say that on a shoulder shot the hippo will not go more than 20yards,the penetration is fantastic. | |||
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| One of Us |
Box, Trying out the Swift's is a good move. Otherwise, I agree with Biebs. I wouldn't recommend TSX. I've never used them on buffalo because I've had them deviate severely in much smaller game. | |||
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| One of Us |
Box, Of the two bullets you list, you can expect deeper penetration from the Nosler over the TBBC. Total amount of tissue destroyed will be equal. 465H&H | |||
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| One of Us |
Can you provide some more info on the TSX deviations? Not trying to question your experience but I've used them exclusively since the late 90's up to this year when I started using the CEBs in my doubles. I've never experienced a failure or "deviation" of any kind using the TSX bullet over a wide range of calibers from .243, .270, 7mm, 308 (30/06, 300H&H, 300WBY), 340WBY, 9.3, 375H&H, 416Rig, 458WM, to 500NE and everything from Hogs, Deer, Moose, plains game of all sizes from Steinbuck to Eland to Cape Buffalo, Hippo, and the African cats, Brown Bear, etc. You do hear of guys having a bad experience with the TSX every once in awhile but it is pretty rare. Also seems the guys who have 1 bad experience have multiples. Lots of guys like me as well that have never had one go bad. Whenever I hear of a bad one, I'm always interested in finding out the circumstances surrounding them. | |||
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