I need one custom built DGR. I sold my .375 H&H three years ago after my last safari - the model 70 had some issues given work by a not so good Smith. I am now contemplating spending $6k to $15k on one good DGR rifle.

Which chambering? I have heard great things about Saeed's 375/404 so I am leaning towards either the .375 Weatherby or I also hear great things things about the .416 rem. Mag.

What trade offs should I consider? I have a .300 win mag and others to pair with for plains game.

416 Ruger with a longer barrel then the factory 20 inch.

It all depends upon what you want to hunt with the rifle. If Elephant is on the wish list, go with the 416. Same thing for Hippo. If nothing bigger than a Cape Buffalo one of the 375's will work fine.

Typical AR response here: Why not a 416 Rigby? Not for the nostalgia, but should you ever want to go bigger it's only a rebarrel job to 450 Rigby.

I guess I'll never be completely convinced of the 375 as a true Dangerous Game caliber. If this will be your one dedicated DGR, I'd go up to a 416. With the newer bullets available, you can go down to 350gr or even 300gr for large Plains Game, or load a 450gr bullet for Elephant or added punch on Buffalo. Yes, with a perfect shot, a 375 would take anything, but sh*t happens :-)

Biebs makes sense.

Given that. I'd call Wayne at AHR and have him make a 416 Rigby. A friend had a pair (06 and 416) made and they are fantastic. Excellent balance and workmanship is spot on.

Hunter 54,

I am a fan of the 375 WBY but if ele is on the menu I think you'd be better off with the 416 Rem which is probably the most practical of the 416's.
If buffalo and all manner of PG are your targeted animals it will be hard to beat the 375 WBY.

Mark

quote:

Biebs makes sense.

Now THERE's a scary statement!!!! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:

quote:

Biebs makes sense.

Now THERE's a scary statement!!!! :-)

I was worried my AR membership would be revoked, but went for it anyway!

416 Remington mag. Ammo won't be a problem over there to find, has no problem whatsoever today hitting the magic 2400 mark with 400gr bullets, and better than that with some loads, and can be chambered in any legitimate long action rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Biebs makes sense.

Given that. I'd call Wayne at AHR and have him make a 416 Rigby. A friend had a pair (06 and 416) made and they are fantastic. Excellent balance and workmanship is spot on.

I can't second this enough. (The AHR part, at least.... ) I've one rifle done up by Wayne and it's been fantastic to me. After I get back from South Africa next fall, I plan on having Wayne build me up one of his Big Game series rifles in some flavor of .284-300 caliber depending on my mood the day I order it.

I'd be on the other end. I think the fast 375 are the cats Azz. Yep the extra bullet weight of the 416 is nice, but elephant is bullet placement, hippo is a precision game too. A fast 375 is a usable caliber on not only dangerous game , but makes a long poke at a roan, or a 250 yard shot at an eland a piece of cake, and if I was having one built...375 WBY is great...I also like the 375 ultra mag...which is basically the 375/404...I have used both on my fast 375s on nilgai, eland, gemsbok, hartebeest, steinbok, 2 buffalo,and even here in North America on 1 elk and they did the job...and a couple those shots would have been a long poke for my 404J...

Ed

Ed, you're right. I'd rather use a 375 on an Elephant than a cape Buffalo. Penetrating the brain on an Ele is one thing, stopping a Buff is quite another. 458 Lott or 500 NE for me.

404J and don't look back.

If in a bolt rifle the 416 Rigby. I would also have to contemplate the 404 Jeffery. In a double or single, 450/400.

quote:

Originally posted by BaxterB:
Biebs makes sense.

Given that. I'd call Wayne at AHR and have him make a 416 Rigby. A friend had a pair (06 and 416) made and they are fantastic. Excellent balance and workmanship is spot on.

Several of the above have given this advice and I applaud.

The 416 Rigby is a fantastic do all rifle when hand loaded. The AHR sounds like a great option. For loads, you will need to go a long way to top 101.5 grains Reloder-17 over a Fed 215Match primer (or WLRM), pushing a 350 grain TTSX at about 2825 fps. Because of the accuracy, I've taken guinea fowl, oribi, and impala, not to mention cape buffalo. (I don't do elephant or hippo, for those I would probably be happy with only a 416 Ruger, giving up about 200 fps.)

The bottom line is that a 416 Rigby cartridge just feels like Africa when lying in the palm of my hand.

PS: I would order a 12" or a 14" twist for the Rigby. The old 16.5" traditional twist was fine for lead bullets, and it handles 350 grain TTSX very accurately, but is not fast enough for the heavier, longer, monolithic bullets.

My go-to rifle is a Bill Wiseman .416 Rem. Mag. so I'm prejudiced. It fits me. It's accurate. It doesn't kick and I shoot it well. It has accounted for a duiker and an elephant on successive days with the same solids. That's versatility. It has taken a Coke's hartebeest at nearly 300 yards, and a Grants at 200 plus. It's a great buffalo round. Last year -- 3 buffalo-- 5 shots total and neither follow up was necessary.

I've shot numerous white-tailed deer and even a turkey with it stateside.

I've used Partitions, Barnes, A-Frames, Woodleighs, etc. I think the .416 Rem. is the perfect rifle for just about everything.

The medium caliber that can do it all.

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
I guess I'll never be completely convinced of the 375 as a true Dangerous Game caliber. If this will be your one dedicated DGR, I'd go up to a 416. With the newer bullets available, you can go down to 350gr or even 300gr for large Plains Game, or load a 450gr bullet for Elephant or added punch on Buffalo. Yes, with a perfect shot, a 375 would take anything, but sh*t happens :-)

If you have shot a few hundred game animals with it, you would not look any further

Yes, it has been argued that shot placement is the most critical thing over bullet weight. A hot 375 with a few exceptions will do the job if inserted in a vital area. Bigger calibers do provide some insurance however.

IMHO, Everyone needs a .416. Saeed is right, a .375 will do it, but anything a .375 can do, a .416 can do better.

For myself and my sons, a 270 or 30-06, a 375 and a 500 sort of rounds things out. A 416 can kind of replace the 375 and 500.

Thanks gents.

Saeed, have you used .416 rem mag on game? If so, how did it compare to your 375/404? I think that the 375 Weatherby will have similar ballistics.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
My go-to rifle is a Bill Wiseman .416 Rem. Mag. so I'm prejudiced. It fits me. It's accurate. It doesn't kick and I shoot it well. It has accounted for a duiker and an elephant on successive days with the same solids. That's versatility. It has taken a Coke's hartebeest at nearly 300 yards, and a Grants at 200 plus. It's a great buffalo round. Last year -- 3 buffalo-- 5 shots total and neither follow up was necessary.

I've shot numerous white-tailed deer and even a turkey with it stateside.

I've used Partitions, Barnes, A-Frames, Woodleighs, etc. I think the .416 Rem. is the perfect rifle for just about everything.

The medium caliber that can do it all.

I have one of Bill's guns too... I had mine built to a 375 ultra, if I could change one thing is have a different action, I had it built in a remington, as I am left handed it was the quickest option...I should have taken more time and found a LH Winchester....I would have been more satisfied...it shoots dang good and is a heck of a do anything Africa rifle.

Ed

Hunter54

Loaded with premium bullets, all those calibers you mention will work fine in Africa for dangerous and plainsgame.

A competent shooter/hunter will not notice any difference in field performance.

But from a practical view point, the 416 Rem Mag would be the easiest solution.

To answer the original question: If you have this rifle do you need another larger smaller faster whatever? Most likely you do not Need the new one . However you should get the new one because Need has nothing to do with this problem. Life is short have fun.

Shoot the 375s you have and save the $6 grand for trophy fees, shoot some more buffalo...Ive never had a problem shooting buffalo with a .375 or 9.3x62 and a few with smaller calibers. A 200 gr 30-06 in the brain or heart is way more effective than a 600. gr. in the gut. I don't buy off on the pervervial "stopper", a stopper mostly holds water in a bath tubb in my books...

I have shot the big animals but what I do know is one or two animals does not mean much and with the very big stuff, unless you are Saeed you won't be shooting many.

Take a trip through the buffalo postings on the African forum. You will see one shoots a buffalo with a 375 and the animal nose dives. Another bloke uses a 458 Lott or 500 Nitro and the shooter almost wears out the barrel on the animal

Of course shoot 20 buffalo then the difference between a 375 and the 458 Lott/500 Nitro will be apparent.

As a case in point the late Allen Day had a fuckup with his 458 and so shot two buffalo with his 300 Winchester and as I remember they were one shop each. Again, shoot 20 buffalo and a 300 Winchester would not shape up well against a big banger.

Ive seen Saeed shoot a lot of buffalo with his 375/404 and Ive shot many buffalo with a 375 H&H. My choice for buffalo is the 404 or 416, but for no particular reason. My double rifle is a 450-400 3 inch..kills about like a .375 as far as I can tell...The main thing is can one shoot well under all conditions. I don't put much faith in "stopping guns"...even the largest has to hit the right spot..I have two films of one buffalo taking 13 shots with a 470 and a 500, another with a buff taking 9 shots with a .470..These guys were clients I sent to Zimbabwe some years back..I know its argueable but my minds made up on that argument!

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
Ed, you're right. I'd rather use a 375 on an Elephant than a cape Buffalo. Penetrating the brain on an Ele is one thing, stopping a Buff is quite another. 458 Lott or 500 NE for me.

Buy an off the rack Lott and spend the savings on ammo/range time. A $15k custom hokus pokus .375 whatever isn't gonna kill better than a .458 Lott, but shooting better will.

quote:

Originally posted by Hunter54:
I need one custom built DGR. I sold my .375 H&H three years ago after my last safari - the model 70 had some issues given work by a not so good Smith. I am now contemplating spending $6k to $15k on one good DGR rifle.

Which chambering? I have heard great things about Saeed's 375/404 so I am leaning towards either the .375 Weatherby or I also hear great things things about the .416 rem. Mag.

What trade offs should I consider? I have a .300 win mag and others to pair with for plains game.

I think that since you have narrowed this rifle down to a "dangerous game" rifle, you should first answer "what does that look like"? I find anymore that if I conceptualize what rifle I want first, I can then pick the cartridge, since there are so many cartridges suitable. For example, a short 577 N.E. 3" is a dangerous game rifle but obviously vastly differs from a 24" 375 H&H not only in form but how it is used. I have several 458s, a 460, a 500 A2, 378, 375, 500 3", but wouldn't care if I hunted dangerious game with nothing but my 21" 9.3x62. Decide the criteria/purpose, then the rifle form factor/type, then cartridge. Saeed's 375/404 isn't magical but he likes it.