Would a shorter barrel give a shorter duration of recoil? Would this (barrel length) increase or decrease muzzle rise? What if the barrels weighed the same?

I would think the only positive difference would be that the bullet would be going slightly slower, which would reduce recoil by a small fraction. However, with a shorter barrel, muzzle jump would be worse, and the rifle would weigh less.

Ken,
What if the barrels weighed the exact same, due to barrel contours?

You wouldn't be able to tell any difference

Recoil (ie velocity, momentum and energy) is easily calculated; speed and weight of bullet and powder gases in relation to weight of gun. The only difference in your example, if the load and the guns both weigh the same, is the speed of the bullet.

Shorter barrel => Lower speed => Less recoil

But the other part is how well the design of the rifle fits you and helps you to manage the recoil. Maybe you could calculate a higher "torque effect" for the shorter barrel but this should be a *very* small difference.

[This message has been edited by Wachtel (edited 03-29-2002).]

The only big advantage of a longer barrel (as it pertains to recoil)is that it moves the muzzle blast farter away from you, and thereby lessens perceived recoil. - Dan

Dan is right, The greater the muzzle blast the greater the perceived recoil. Look at all the Mosin Nagant M91/30 vs the M44. Same gun, same weight, but the shorter M44 gets a reputation as having massive recoil. Longer barrels dampen muzzle blast and noise, which leads to the perception of less recoil, all else being equal.

A shorter barrel may reduce recoil if the pressure peak occurs very late. You will have lower velocity. The general rule is 25-50 fps/ inch. That's why some people han shoot .416 Rigby's in Encore pistols.
A longer barrel will give higher velocities and has additional weight to offset recoil.
The best way to deal with recoil is the following:
1. Maximize gun weight- based on use
2. Install a good muzzel break
3. Learn to shoot without flinching
4. Use a good recoil pad on the rifle

The longer barrel will reduce felt recoil because it reduces the recoil induced torque felt by the shooter. I have experience with a 458 Win Mag which I installed both a 20 inch and later a 25 inch barrel on the same action/stock. The longer barrel was more comfortable to shoot. Muzzle velocity increased about 50 fps with the longer barrel by the way. Bullets used were 500 softs. I believe that the added muzzle velocity more than compensated for the slight weight addition afforded by the longer barrel.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual shooter. The dynamics equation still supports the longer barrel lower recoil torque though. If you don't believe me and do not understand the physics involved, consider this. If you have ever shot a powerful hand guns (or seen one shot) with a very short barrel you will have noticed how violently it flipped up in the shooters hands. The same handgun with a long barrel (say 8"+) and the flip is much less severe. This is the phenomena I am referring to.

Todd E

[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 03-30-2002).]

I agree that the longer barrel lessens percieved recoil and thats the only kind of recoil that bothers me!!

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I second the notion that muzzle blast has a lot to do with "felt" recoil. I once owned nearly identical rifles, one in 270w and one in 25/06. In those early days of my shooting and reloading, I couldn't figure out why the 25/06 with 120 Grain bullets kicked more than the 270 with 130 Grain bullets. I was using 55 Gr of 7828 in the 25/06 and 55 Gr of 4350 in the 270. Measured velocities were nearly identical at 3050 fps.

Finally figured out that it was the blast that made it feel that way, not the ft-lbs.

I firmly believe that the greatest item causing us poor 'ol tender US citizens to become wimps with recoil is the straight stock design that has evolved with long range rifles topped with high mounted big objective lens scopes. I have one stock that has negative drop, the top of the butt is higher than the bore centerline!!!! Many stocks of this design wind up on 416 and above rifles, 'cause they are the accepted design today, and no manufacturers make properly dimensioned stocks for big bores due to the limited market. You have to find a stockmaker with a duplicator and correct patterns and have one made out of the good old standby, Walnut.

On the big bores, made for iron sights, use adequate drop at the butt and comb, some cast off, and pitch the recoil pad so it is not perpendicular to the bore centerline. Very important is a large enough barrel contour such that the rifle balances and handles nicely. And make that butt wide enough and high enough so you have generous area for the recoil pad.

The 458 Lott in my site photos has suprisingly lessened felt recoil when shooting 500 grain full loads. The barrel is a 22 inch No. 6 contour, total rifle weight is 9-3/8 pounds, and it feels lighter due to the balance. Ask JJHack how it handles!

Build the rifle propely, and forget about brakes. If the rifle has to be braked, the stock design is all wrong, or you have more cartridge than you can handle, or a combination of both. Don't judge the recoil of a big bore DGR when shooting off a bench, this is the wrong way to use the rifle. I use the bench and a Past pad for regulating the sights, but after this event, is is standing up. After all, you will not shoot that Cape Buff when using a bench!!! Stand up and learn how to shoot.

I see many stocks on iron sighted big bores, both from the big manufacturers and custom gun builders, where one cannot see the iron sights, or you have to really push your cheek into the stock to get a sight picture. Pushing your cheek into the stock to get a sight picture transmits a good bit of the recoil into your cheek bone and downright hurts when the rifle is fired! Plus this can lead to a detached retina.

Ray is correct in his past statements about big bore stock design: Once you have fired a big bore with a correct stock, you will change your mind significantly.

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Currently in Exile on the Beautiful Olympic Peninsula of Washington State.

Email Address is rifles@earthlink.net

Web site http://home.earthlink.net/~rifles/

Is there a stock design that will accomodate both iron sights and a scope and not kick the crap out of you with either technique?
lb404

lb404,
Yes there is and we have had it for centurys but along came Jack O'connor and threw the wheels out of line, God bless him...Then others, in human fashion, followed and piled on more wood and strighter stocks to hype the poor believeing public..

Holland and Holland is the best example that I can think off..Low comb, thin razor cheekpiece, drop at heel and comb, and 5/8" cast off, perfect for iron sights and they flat work great with a scope...and suck up recoil like a sponge..the first time I shot one I knew Jack had been had.

Why? A stright stock will drive the gun stright back into the shoulder, end of story.. a little drop from the, and this is important, "bore line" at heel and comb will bring some back and some up splitting up the forces.

Lifting the head up 1/8 to 1/4 of and inch and rapeing the much heralded triangle ( a term rendered by some expert gun writer ) is not the end of all shooting skill, in fact it is meaningless...

Now go out and find an old Win. M-70 with a low comb and see if shooting it causes any great harm to your shooting skills when scoped..Your fathers and their fathers had no trouble with them when old Bill Weaver brought out his first scopes and all guns had low combs...I remember that much. So all this hype to impress folks and sell rifles, never ment much to me..

I probably just ruined several lives and some will live in anguish for weeks from this post but its time the woke up and accepted the fact they been "Skreeeruded"

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray, can you panograph a blank for me? Pre-64 model 70, drop box, euro cheekpiece????
PLEASE!!!!!!!
lb404

Boltgun did Overkill put you up to that question?

Doug

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NRA Life member