I am thinking of reboring my M77 Ruger and am giving serious consideration to both of these cartridges. I have seen a great deal of performance data on the 500 A-Square but none for the 495. Has anyone shot and/or done load development for the 495 A-Square?
I have an additional question about the 495 A-sq... If anyone owns one... do you have to do any neck turning? it is cut down a bit from the wby case and the 600 grainers get long.
Posts: 2045 | Location: West most midwestern town. | Registered: 13 June 2001
Remember your post on the "gunsmithing" forum? Wells Sports Store quoted $265.00 to re-bore, chamber, crown, and lap. Page 2 under "cut rifle re-bore".
Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Tompkins (edited 07-23-2001).]
500Grains, I do mean rebore. I have a M77 Magnum in 416 Rigby. Neither of these cartridges should pose any significant magazine or bolt modifications for this rifle. The reason I want to rebore is this rifle has an integral quarter rib, which will be quite costly to replicate onto a replacement barrel.
Bill, The quoted rebore cost you pointed out is precisely why I have asked the original question.
I have one and shoot it quite a bit. Mine is an A-Square Hannibal rifle with a "coil-check" stock, which is a joke! It should be a real nice rifle in a Ruger but I can assure you a brake might come in handy if you don't already have one. I have been Shooting 570gr Barnes X's just to plink with and get almost 2400 with them. I am going to take it to Africa next month to try it on Buff. I have not had to turn any necks or do anything different to them other than keep 'em trimmed. I have A-Square brass which seems kinda soft but it gets the job done.
Todd, I own a 500 A2,(rebarreled 460 wby.) Go with the 500, it will do everything the 495 will do and then some at lower pressures. The 495 A-Square reminds me of the 470 Capstick with a larger case.
Sooner, I have tried A-Square brass, and I also found that they are too soft. Since switching to Weatherby brass I have not had to trim my cases because they do not stretch.
I agree with you Mitch, those 570 X's are for a 500 Jeff I am almost done with. When thats done I will likely let this 495 go. After seeing Saeeds data on the Jeff I think it might just beat that 500 A2. That .495 will likely kill anything the 500 will, but I do like the lower pressures of the Jeff, and most of all I don't like that A2 rifle!
Please share your experience with the 570 X's in your jeffrey when its done, because I have a 500 in the works, and plan to use the 570's. Barnes says they are too long for the Jeffrey, but I'm having mine done in a P-14, so it shouldn't be a problem. I also plan to try some 600gr hawks, and am debating an additional mold of ~580 gr to compliment the 450 gr LFN mold I have.
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001
Todd, You might also want to take a look at Bowen Classic Arms' conversions of the Ruger Magnum. They offer a .505 Gibbs. Maybe you want more power than the .505 but a Ruger Magnum in .505 Gibbs would really be classy! Just a suggestion. (I have no first hand experience with any of Bowen's work so I can not attest to the quality of this conversion.) http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/rifles.html -BOB
Let us know how those 600 grain Hawks do in your Jeffery. I have always shot 570 grain Woodleighs but they can be a real pain in the arse to get ahold of from time to time and have been considering the teh Hawks.
For the record I have already have a 500 AHR. So I have some experience with these cannons.
Actually, I would do the 505 Gibbs conversion, but then I would need a custom drop magazine to get back to three down. I am just too cheap for that. The real reason for reboring the Ruger, by the way, is this is one of the original heavy barrels and the balance is terrible. I figure that if I remove the 6.5 ounces of steel that the .510 bore will provide the balance should be improved dramatically. Besides then I would have another awesome deer rifle.
Surely someone is gonna weigh in on this discussion and enlighten all of us as to how the 50/70 Sharps is equal to or better than all the rest of the 50 calibers!?
------------------ Andy Cooper
Posts: 6711 | Location: Oklahoma, USA | Registered: 14 March 2001
I thought it was a 50-70 Gov't. Anyway I would consider it as a chambering for the rebore, but those rimmed cartridges are difficult to feed from the magazine (just kidding). I will say this for the old cartridge, I bet it would kick awhole lot less!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd Hi Todd I've shot the 600 grain Hawks in my 500 A-Square and they are very good. With the .065 jacket they make one hell of a hole through the wet newspaper during tests. They do not bond the jacket and core which is the only downfall if you could consider it a downfall. They jacket carries a pretty large portion of the weight. The core doesn't seperate until the last bit of the penetration and is usually found within a couple of inches of the jacket. If they would bond them they would be top notch bullets. The accuracy is very good. Have you thought about having your heavy Ruger barrel fluted to get rid of some of the extra weight. Go with the 500 and you can always load down to the others. 470 Mbogo
Thanks for the Hawks bullet info. I also have a 500 AHR and have been looking for info on these bullets. I have heard rumors that the Hawk bullets yield unpredictable pressure variations. Have you seen any such behavior?
By the way, your 470 Mbogo cartridge, is it based on the 416 Rigby? I might consider it as well. I do after all have a consider amount of Rigby brass.
Todd, I have used Hawk bullets in my 500 A2 and I experienced tremendous pressures spikes. I also got pressure spikes when I used them in my 460 Wby. If you are going to use Hawks use a single base powder and don't try running max. loads with them. The jacket and core of the Hawk Bullets are very soft and they seal the bore during firing not allowing propellant gases escape past the bullet. This of course raises chamber pressures.
Todd, Yes the loads were lightly compressed. The pressure spikes are much more common when you use Reloader Powders(they are double base powders). I called Hawk about this problem and they are aware of it. Someone with a 505 Gibbs called Hawk with the same problem with pressure spikes. I am not sure if he was using Reloader powders. I would try using H4831 with the Hawks, this powder seems to be very stable and I have not experienced any spikes since I started using it in my 460 with Hawk bullets. However H4831 is too slow with 600 gr. bullets in my 500, but you may be able to get away with it in your 500 since you have a good deal more case capacity.
[This message has been edited by Mitch (edited 08-05-2001).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd E: Hi Todd, The 470 Mbogo is based on the 416 Rigby brass but I start out with the cylindrical brass from Mast Technologies without a headstamp. If you try to fire form from 416 Rigby brass you end up with a short neck. When you use the Mast brass you just run it through your resizing die and trim to the proper length. I didn't notice the pressure spikes with the Hawk bullets but I did start all loads with the 470 down around 2200 fps and then worked up. Once I was in the 2470 fps range on the chronograph reading I left the load there. I've never had any sticky bolt lift or marks on my brass etc. Maybee there was enough room since the loads were not max. I have noticed when testing my old 375 Weatherby that with the same load the Hawk bullets did carry a higher velocity. I've used Reloader 15 in my 500 A-Square as well as my 470 Mbogo. I think you should really consider the results that Mitch mentioned and contact Hawk to check out the information for yourself. 470 Mbogo
Todd, I never used 4350 with Hawk Bullets in my 500. But I think if you run moderate loads you should not run into trouble since it is a single base powder. Watch your chronograph, if you see a sudden large jump in velocity stop immediately.
