Anyone have any experience using the Barnes .458 350 grain TSX at Win Mag velocities (2400 to 2500 fps)? I'm going on a goat hunt on Kodiak Island this fall and I'm considering carrying my Win Mag with this bullet for use on the goats, but I'm concerned about it's relatively low sectional density if I have to use it on a big brown in an emergency.

Not to hijack this thread, but a closely related question. What about the 350 grain North Fork SS in a .458 Win Mag for buffalo? Is the low sectional density an issue? Maybe I will switch to the Barnes or Kay9Cop will switch to the North Fork depending on what we hear!

[Kay9Cop, if you prefer that I remove my post, I am happy to do so.]

No Mike I can't really recommend the 350 for buff. Andy used the 400 with good results even after my advice not too and that was just me being cautious because of no previous feedback. Anyway it (400) worked well for Andy but 400 would be as low as I would go for really heavy stuff. Now I DO think the 350 would make a really bad day for a moose or big bear from the Win Mag. I could get 2650 from a 26" barrel. 2550 should be no problem from a "normal" length barrel.

Well that comes from the man himself. Sounds like I need to step up to 450 grainers. Thanks Mike.

Ive posted this photo before.



450 grain North Fork bonded soft point at 2550 fps on left and 400 grain NF at 2750 fps on right! From 450 Dakota.

Both had nearly identical penetration and weight retention.

A 400 NF in 458 win mag will do great!

At 450 Dakota velocity expansion was about 82 caliber. Will be less at win mag velocity which is 350- 400 fps less. For comparison a 400 grain Swift from a 416 Remington which is the baselilne of knock em down performance for a buff ctg, expands to about 78-80 caliber.
So whats the difference between a 416 and 458 with 400 NF?

Nothing except the NF is a bit more reliable with solid base construction.

It takes a fairly sophisticated shooter to appriciate this, but there is no reason not to use the 400 NF in your .458 for PG and buff and switch to 450 FN for elephant.

In my rifle it was no problem regulating all three bullet weights. 500 was about 4 inches low, 450 2 inches and 400 on.

Andy

Kay9

I would use the 350 TSX or the 350 Northfork on any thin skinned species without any concerns at all about penetration--they will get to where they need to without a problem and hit hard when they get there.

No I would rather have a heavier bullet for buffalo--but you didn't say anything about buff.

Now I also would not be comfortable with a non premium 350 either. Stick with the NorthFork or the Barnes 350--and honestly anything around 2300-2400 fps will be more than enough.

Michael

Personally, I think the 458 win and the 400 grain Northfork are the perfect combination. 400 grain Barnes would work as well and the 400 grain Kodiak bonded would as well.. I would leave the 350's at home if a Kodiak brown bear was on the potential list of targets. Load the 400's and don't think about it again.

Joe

Joe,
How many head of DG have you personally shot and how many big bears?

K9,

Don't ask me why, but I used the 350gr. X (pre TSX) for years in my 22" .458 Win. for back-up while guiding pig hunts.

This was back then I was guiding quite a bit so I'm sure I finished off dozens of pigs with that combo and I while the wound channel was impressive, I never recovered a single bullet. Remember for finishing work usually I only shot if it was the south end of a north bound pig. I've even had those bullets enter the hind end and exit the head... three or four feet of penetration.

While the trajectory might leave a little something to be desired across canyons you won't lack for penetration. (The 300gr. X in the .460 Wby. was a different experiment without such great results.).

Kyler

I haven't used the 350 grainer in a .458. Have used a .416 caliber 350 grainer on Buf at 2700 fps. Its penetration was spectacular! Was more than 6 feet even after encountering and destroying the very large femur.

I would assume that the difference in caliber and velocity would reduce the penetration of a .458 diameter 350 gr bullet. I personally would probably let others do the first experiment on real game ... but would not be reticent to use a lighter than 500 gr Barnes X in the .458. I'd be comfortable with anything between 400 and 450 grains of weight in that kind of bullet.

mstarling

In my 416 B&M I used a 350 Swift and it performed perfect. My boys also used the 350 Barnes on Kudu, oryx, wildebeast and a few other critters last year and it was a real hammer, in one instance from a rear shot it traveled the entire length of a kudu. In the 416 B&M running the 350s at 2400-2450 depending on the bullet. So I agree with you 100% concerning this.

For buff and those sort of things I too would rather have a 450-500 in 458 caliber. But our boy K9 is looking at the 350 Barnes or other premium for goats--with the possibility of big bears. I think the premium 350s will do a fine job in that arena.

Michael

Michael458,

Going to take a .458 AR to Africa in May if headstamped brass is available. Will use a 425 gr Rhino bullet at 2400 fps. The Rhino is a solid shank, bonded core projectile whose nose is roughly like the Woodleigh protected point.

I figure it should hammer the heck out of the Eland I'll hunt

Hey mstarling (Mike)

I think Jeffe will get you sorted out with some brass. I remember now that you mentioned the Rhino bullet (I am not familiar with those) but if it does perform similar to the Woodleigh it will be a hammer knockout for the eland and other critters like that. I will hope to get a report on bullet performance when you return please.

I just went over a scanned around on the Rhino website. They look pretty good to me. Looks like most expand to 1/3-1/2 the length of the bullet which is good for deeper penetration. Best of luck.

Michael

Anybody know what Phil S. used in 'Ole ugly' for brown bear?

I agree with Mike on this..Thin skinned,even Big Brownies should be NO Problem.Those X's and TSX's are flying buzzsaws!They are devastating!I have shot Cape at 50-60yds Broadside with the lil 458 Mag(before my BIG bore days) and with 450X's at 2100 got complete exits on Both shoulders,more than once!and the wound channel is really something to see. I know the Northforks and Swifts are great,but they cant do the damage of the Barnes All Coppers (X&TSX)My Next Brown Bear hunt will be with my 458 Lott and the 350TSX at 22-2300.I have total confidence in it!I would do Cape with it,but would most likely go to 450TSX for going away shots

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Kay9

I would use the 350 TSX or the 350 Northfork on any thin skinned species without any concerns at all about penetration--they will get to where they need to without a problem and hit hard when they get there.

No I would rather have a heavier bullet for buffalo--but you didn't say anything about buff.

Now I also would not be comfortable with a non premium 350 either. Stick with the NorthFork or the Barnes 350--and honestly anything around 2300-2400 fps will be more than enough.

Michael

The penetration of the Barnes X is directly proportional to the expanded frontal area.



At higher velocity the front end blows off leaving a wadcutter.

If you want to create more necrotic tissue choose a higher expansion bullet.

Pictured are 400 grain 458 at 2650 fps, 450 at 2500 fps and 500 grain at 2350 fps.

The 400 grain had more penetration than the 500 grain.

The 450 was best compromise between expansion and penetration.

Better choice is 400 or 450 grain North Fork.

Pictured at point blank and 100 yards, muzzle velocity 2750 fps and 2550 fps.



Andy