I'm thinking about not even doing open sights on my upcoming lott. I have backup irons on several of my other guns and have really never had to use them.

I was going to put either NECG semi adjustable express rear and gold bead front or XS backup peep with thier whiteline blade front along with a Leuopld Euro 2-7 30mm scope. I was talking to a guy today that got me thinking about forgoing the open sights and just putting a 1-4 nightforce, or 1.5-5 leupold VXIII on it. At 1 power the nightforce is even quicker than open sights and with the lighted reticle is good for any light condition.

I know it doesnt' seem right to have a big bore without irons but how often do they really get used. Any of you have any naked big bores? Do you wish you had gotten open sights on them?

I've never used the irons on my 404jeffery, except for practice, but you never know when Mr. Murphy will strike.

I used just the irons on my .458 in Zimbabwe, but that was by design.

quote:

but you never know when Mr. Murphy will strike. shame

In the old days when scopes were questionable in regards to performance ie..,fogging,reticle failure or poor seals iron sites were par for the course. Now a days most seem to exxagerate the full reliability of there scope and don't opt for irons-probably have a guide to back them up.

Now this is just me mind you and don't mind me at all but....I would have irons. If I ever fall, Lord forbid and my scope fails all I will have is bore line up and/or an expensive club.

I think them NECG's you were thinking on was a good one.

they don't weigh much considering..................

my .02

On any firearm, the primary sights are those that are integral with the barrel. The ones that attach to the receiver should be considered backup or for convenience.

Carry a spare scope, a leupold prismatic or one of those litte Burris fast fires. A spare fast fire sits in my cammel bak.

Cannot see the need for iron sights any longer unles you enjoy using them, or your rifle isn't buit for optical sights (like my early Mausers)

It's a totally personal decision. I don't believe a sporting rifle LOOKS right without iron sights,period. The only exception is bull barrel target guns and benchrest guns and I even prefer the looks of globe fronts and micrometer rears on bull barrels. Most of what a gun looks like is personal in any case and has little actually to do with practicallity. Of course again these are personal opinions.

THE Question you have to ask yourself: would the airlines figure out a way to break my scope in transit? If the answer is "Yes..." then an inexpensive set of iron sights is cheap insurance.
If you have faith in the airlines and their baggage handlers, then no, you do not.

JMHO,

Rich
DRSS

I have both irons & an extra scope in rings.

When i replaced the barrel on my sako 375, didnt get ny sights, and never missed the. of course, I use it for plains game and backup for a heavy.

I would put the iron the sights on. You will never regret it if you do. But you will kick your self the first time you need them... and don't have them.

Safe Hunting
Will

3 weeks before my zim trip my swarovski 1.5-6x42 took a dump on my 458 lott. I still had time to buy another, however, if this had happend while hunting I would have been up a creek. The back up iron sights make this weapon still usable.

If nothing else, irons might improve the resale-ability of the rifle. I'm sure that's not a priority now, but who knows about the future?

Large bore shooters tend to the traditional.

I am one of those who think that all of the above mentioned reasons, not just one of them, make it a good choice to include iron sights in a big bore rifle project. Scopes do break, resale value will be better, for most people they are aesthetically pleasing because they keep the cartridge and the rifle in the classic configuration, etc. And if the scope breaks during the follow-up on a potentially dangerous animal then they are at exactly the right place at exactly the right time. Of course if you are talking about a .378 Weatherby then you can leave them off and add a muzzle break.

I don't think that back up sights are mandatory. A naked rifle with a good scope is just fine. But a spare scope is a good idea.

All real hunting rifles should have iron sights, regardless of what caliber they are. The reason is simple, the irons are back-up if the optics fail!

I'm with Wink and Scott.

To me, if the rifle is to be a safe or range queen, then it doesn't matter. If it's to be a true hunting rifle, then zeroed, top quality irons and QD mounts are mandatory for a scoped rifle. A spare scope is fine, but is worthless until you get back to the hunting car or camp to get it (and possibly need to re-zero depending on mount type).

I have no use for slick barreled hunting rifles.
---------------------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have several of each. My main concerns are, where am I hunting, what's the weather like, and do I feel comfortable with the gun I take along. The further from home, the worse the weather, and the less comfortable I'd feel if something failed, the more likely the rifle I carry has irons on it...even if I bring another scope.

No need for irons as long as a back up scope is handy. Still, I prefer to have irons on my rifles.

While the odds are you'd probably never need to use them, I'd rather have sights and not need them than the other way around!

For years Weatherby did not put open sights on it's big bores. I carry two low powered zeroed scopes.

I have had thick bush catch in my open sights as well as sling and scope. So, for me it's not a big deal.

Only REAL MEN use big bores with iron sights.

Shootaway! Packy

I hate to repeat myself, but a lot of testing has convienced me and others that the 2.5 Leupold compact is the only scope that will take a constant beating from the Lott...

IMO, a Lott does not need a scope if your eyesight is good and you can shoot irons..

The lott is a short range rifle for the most part, and buff are very seldom shot at over 150 yards, mostly under 50 yards as a fact, but even at 250 yards the lungs of a buffalo are a very large target, and iron sights would work fine to 250 yards..A receiver sight with the apature removed is even more accurate to most..

Anyone that would go to Africa or on any back country hunts without back up irons is making a mistake IMO..I have irons on my varmint rifles, so I can stay tuned up with them from time to time.

An extra scope is fine but you never know if a scope is going to return to zero or not and will it be available when the one on the gun goes South, probably not....

Irons are just good insurance IMO..In Africa I use my scope for backup sights and use irons as a rule, that is on dangerous game only..Plainsgame is better hunted with a scope but not required, the choice is yours however.

I cary my spare sights in a pouch on my belt e.o.-tech

Ray,
Once more I find myself in 100% agreement with what you say, (should I be worried about this? ), However I can not recall having to take off a scope and use the iron sights. That does not mean it won't happen.
Ray, have you had to take off a scope and use the irons?

like the man said, roy weatherby -never- put iron sights on his big bores.

and who here knows more than old roy ?

as for me, a rifle without iron sights looks unfinished. i won't own one.

the cost of putting them on is peanuts to the grief they can save you.

"as for me, a rifle without iron sights looks unfinished. i won't own one.

the cost of putting them on is peanuts to the grief they can save you.

TOMO577
DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY"

I couldn´t agree more, as long as "DANGEROUS GAME" is written before "rifle".

H

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana: ... or one of those litte Burris fast fires. A spare fast fire sits in my cammel bak.

What´s THAT?

H

Oldun,
Yes, I have had to take off a scope and use my irons on a few ocassions..I always take the scope off when I go into the thick stuff after a buffalo for instance..

These days, at least in Africa, I use iron sights as my primary sights..I normally have Twiga or whoever, carry my scope sighted .375 just in case we see a big Kudu, or whatever at greater distance, while hunting buffalo...

In the USA I probably use a receiver sight or irons more than scopes these days. I do this for no particular reason other than I am just inclined to do so. A scope is more suitable for most folks.

quote:

Originally posted by tomo577:
like the man said, roy weatherby -never- put iron sights on his big bores.

and who here knows more than old roy ?

Case closed! That alone, is a good enough reason to put iron sights on a your rifle!

quote:

as for me, a rifle without iron sights looks unfinished. i won't own one.

the cost of putting them on is peanuts to the grief they can save you.

Me too I will not own a DGR without irons, even if I never need them!

A big bore without iron sights is just wrong.

Read Boddington on iron sights in his African safari book. He uses two pages to destroy the concept of irons. Finn Aagard PH from Kenya did timed tests using scopes and irons and claimed a scope is superior at all ranges except point blank. Boddington will only take a scope off if its defective even when going in after DG. I took the sights off my Weatherby 375 because I like the smooth barrels on that style of rifle.

They look right on a rifle to be used for dangerous game. Even still they can almost be just an accessory.I'd just carry an extra scope just in case. That was what I thought for lots of years. At least until I was on a plains game hunt and had a chance at buff made available. I only had my scoped 375 without iron sites and in the thick stuff my ph had wanted me to pull the scope site down the side of the barrel, not a natural way to do things. I've since put irons on guns I might use in that situation and sight them in and added them to that .375. fwiw...ymmv

The simple fact is what is needed more for dgr rifles than power is proper shot placement. If anyone is able to place there shots more accurately with irons in poor light, speak up. Last time I had my eyes checked I had 20/15 vision, and I still shoot better with glass than iron.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
THE Question you have to ask yourself: would the airlines figure out a way to break my scope in transit? If the answer is "Yes..." then an inexpensive set of iron sights is cheap insurance.
If you have faith in the airlines and their baggage handlers, then no, you do not.

JMHO,

Rich
DRSS

You know, someday, PETA is going to do something useful, and free the specially trained, 800# gorrillas the airlines keep hidden in the baggage handling areas...

Boddington almost missed a buffalo at 70 yards because he didn't get the front bead all the way in the bottom of the rear sight. His 50 plus year old eyes(mine too) can't focus that well any more. And they are brush catchers.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I'm thinking about not even doing open sights on my upcoming lott. I have backup irons on several of my other guns and have really never had to use them.

I was going to put either NECG semi adjustable express rear and gold bead front or XS backup peep with thier whiteline blade front along with a Leuopld Euro 2-7 30mm scope. I was talking to a guy today that got me thinking about forgoing the open sights and just putting a 1-4 nightforce, or 1.5-5 leupold VXIII on it. At 1 power the nightforce is even quicker than open sights and with the lighted reticle is good for any light condition.

I know it doesnt' seem right to have a big bore without irons but how often do they really get used. Any of you have any naked big bores? Do you wish you had gotten open sights on them?

Thebear_78,

Firstly, you don't mention what you will use this rifle for - is it African dangerous game? If so, have iron sights fitted whether or not you also fit a low power scope.

Every member who has posted comments following your query has valid opinions, BUT mainly according to their individual experience or simply preferences for one reason or another.

However, most I guess are hunters of dangerous game only very occasionally, maybe once a year or less, so those experiences are fairly limited, but still valid for that particular hunter. And every one of our posting colleagues will be using scope sights for all North American, and most other, game.

A different group of guys, African professional hunters, almost without exception use iron sights on big bore weapons. Now that tells us something.

If my clients intend to use scopes on rifles for elephant and buffalo, my suggestion is to have deatchable mounts so iron sights can be used if the occasion arises for very close shots in very dense cover. This situation is not uncommon - just last month one client failed to drop his elephant and another wounded his buffalo, and I was very happy to be using my old .458 WM with open sights to kill both animals.

If you are not accustomed to using open sights, particularly in a hurry, then the scope is right for you, BUT, still leave those iron pieces in place!

Good Hunting.
Richard Harland.

I have three 40's and all have iron sights. The one I think of as my dangerous game rifle (416 Howell) has no provision for a scope; my Marlin 45/70 which is my running deer rifle has iron sights; and the 425 Express has a scope mounted.

Like Ray said, big bores for close range work. For lion, elephant or hippo you will be close or closer. Buffalo could be at longer range, but I'd be willing to bet that an average distance would be no more than 50 yards. A 50yd shot is well within the iron sight abilities of anyone going after dangerous game.

Leopard is the exception to big bores and dangerous game, and the preferred rifle would be a medium caliber with a scope because of the potential for shooting in low light.

A medium rifle like the 9.3 or 375HH might be made without iron sights, but IMO never a 40+ caliber. Most of my medium rifles carry iron sights as back ups, but I'd only put a scope on a 40 that could/would be used for plains game. How much plains game hunting will one do with a 458 Lott? Kudude

On my 458 Lott I have safari sights files in for my 500gn solids/softpoints.
My scope has QD mounts and allows me to play with lighter 300 - 450 gn bullets as their point of impact are all different.
Here's the scenario I shoot a buff with a 350 grain monolithic solid at say 80 yds. Shit happens and he runs into the grass. Take the sling and scope off and feed the rifle up with the 500's.

Mark

I have a set of back up irons on my 375 H&H. A brockmans pop up peep with tritium front bead. They are nice especially in really low light but I have never had to take the scope off this rifle while hunting. The only time I have had a scope break was once I rolled a 4 wheeler down a mountain about 350-400 feet, breaking a stock and scope in half. I will be mainly using this scope for moose/bear hunting at ranges up to 250-300 yards or so.

This is my lightweight 375 H&H