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Everybody is probably aware that Norma has a new manual out; or maybe not. They have included five big bore cartridges, two old classics and three newer classics to be. FWIW, here is a review I recently wrote on it:

quote:
LAWNDART’S RELOADING ROOM #13: THE NEW NORMA RELOADING MANUAL.

Norma, bullets, brass, loaded ammunition, and even the new Norma loading manual are all produced by the good people of Åmotfors, Sweden.

I must start this article by declaring that I think highly of the brass and powders that Norma markets. The first Norma reloading manual has a © date of 2004, but first became available to the US market just four years ago. The first edition reloading manual is an excellent reference work; unfortunately it was obsolete within one year of its general US release. First, MRP-2 powder that was featured produced one early fantastically performing lot. That was never repeated. Second, the first manual had no mention of URP powder (produced by Nitro Chemie of Switzerland – think Reloder 17). Now, URP bats clean-up in its powder line. Last In the last year MRP 2 has been superseded by the new Norma 217 powder (think Reloder 33). The new Norma loading manual reflects all of the powder changes and additions to the Norma line.

Most of Norma powders are produced by Bofors in Sweden. Both companies are members of the large RUAG conglomerate based in Thun, Switzerland. Can you guess who gets first crack at the most uniform powder lots? (Reloder powders mirror Norma brand powders, albeit with looser lot to lot uniformity tolerances). Norma has OEM partnership arrangements with companies such as Weatherby and Nosler, and produces boutique brass and cartridge lines for some very well known names. Norma also loads bullets from Woodleigh, Sierra, Swift, Berger, and Hornady in its own lines of hunting and target cartridges. When you see a listing for loading a specific bullet in a given cartridge, odds are pretty good that Norma loads that bullet commercially.

Norma has added fourteen new cartridges to its listings. Increasing the cartridge total from 73 to 87 is quite a boost. Accuracy/competition additions are the 6mm PPC, David Tubb’s 6XC (Norma produces the brass for Mr. Tubb’s Superior Shooting Systems), and the 338 and 300 Norma Magnum cartridges. USA competitive shooter Jimmie Sloan developed what is essentially a shorter and more efficient iteration of the 338 Lapua Magnum. He and Norma partnered to bring both the 338 and 300 versions of this cartridge to the market place. Interestingly, General Dynamics has developed a medium machine gun that fires the 338 Norma cartridge. It has longer legs, and quite a bit more power than the PKM (7.62 x 53) machine gun fielded by recent and present “peer competitors” on battlefields around the globe. More “schwack” per round fired; that is for sure. The 338 Norma Medium Machine Gun is undergoing trials in Afghanistan as I write this. Reports from the field are positive. The 300 Norma is yet another way to launch a .308 projectile into low earth orbit from a target rifle.

The new manual lists loads for the 7mm, 300, 338, and 375 Blaser Magnum cartridges. In keeping with today’s fashion, these cartridges are based on shortened .404 Jeffery cartridge cases. In each case, the Blaser cartridges provide increased velocity and barrel life, and improved accuracy when compared to the corresponding belted magnum cartridge. These cartridges are basically version 2.0 of the original Dakota cartridges (also based on the .404 Jeffery). The new Norma loading manual also closes the loop on the Remington Ultra Magnum series with the addition of the 300 Remington Ultra Magnum.

The new Norma manual finishes strong with the addition of five old and new medium and large bore dangerous game cartridges. The .375 Holland & Holland Flanged Magnum and 500 Nitro Express 3” load data helps to further fill in the line up of classic cartridges for double barreled rifles. The 500/416 Nitro Express, 458 Lott, and 450 Rigby are all relatively modern cartridges that fall into the, “I want that dangerous game animal absolutely dead right now” category. The 500/416 is a modern day double rifle cartridge that functions basically as a rimmed 416 Rigby. The 458 Lott and 450 Rigby are available at a price point bearable by the unwashed masses courtesy of the CZ 550 Magnum rifle.

From the standpoint of powder, the great leap forward is the inclusion of loads featuring Norma URP and Norma 217 where appropriate. URP has a burn rate between 4350 and 4831. The new manual also characterizes the burn rate as being just slightly quicker than Norma 204. The big news is the inclusion of 10% nitroglycerine. From the manual: “… [This] improves the energy and makes it less sensitive to temperature and moisture.” I have found this powder to perform excellently in both the 30-06 Springfield and 338 Winchester Magnum with light to medium bullet weights, just as the manual states. I believe that Norma URP may soon be the powder that I reflexively reach for when loading medium capacity cartridges.

Norma 217 on the other hand, inhabits the deep, slow end of the burning rate scale. It is fantastic in the 338 Lapua Magnum, as well as the eponymous 338 Norma Magnum and 300 Norma Magnum. I have not shed a tear for MRP 2. I just poured my can of it on the rose bushes, and got busy with Norma 217. For me, it is a good answer for the 7mm Remington Magnum, and any other over bore cartridge that I might need to load. MRP (think Reloder 22) has been mixed with just a touch of magic Swedish forest dust. It is now more resistant to temperature and moisture excursions. If ever a prayer has been answered, here is an example.

Oh yes, Norma makes brass in almost every size listed in the manual. Thank you, Åmotfors.


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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THANK you for the update.

I sometimes like to check 'known loads' to see how much lawyering up has been going on.

for example, the old 250 grain Nosler partion used to travel at 2700fps in the 338WM.
Here is the new Norma data, including URP (aka Rel-17?)
Bullet Nosler Partition 250 gr
Bullet weight 16.2 g / 250 gr
B.C 0.473
C.O.L 84.0 mm / 3.307"
# 35644
Gunpowder - Charge Weight - - - -Velocity m/s - - Velocity fps
Norma URP Max 63.0 // Min 60.0 - - 794 // 766 - - 2605 // 2513

63 grains is far too little for a 4350 or Rel-17 powder in the 338WinMag. I wouldn't want to go below 63 as a minimum load.
But it's their manual and they can publish what they wish.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4253 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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I can't remember the last time I even saw some Norma powder! It is also kind of hard for me to believe that with all the foreign manufacturers of powder, bullets, brass and ammunition, that they are not ready, willing, and able to step in to fill the void here in the U.S. Guess I'll go put my tinfoil hat back on!


DRSS(We Band of Bubba's Div.)
N.R.A (Life)
T.S.R.A (Life)
D.S.C.
 
Posts: 2276 | Location: Texas | Registered: 18 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Norma 201, 202 and 203B recently arrived at the local emporium in Kentucky. Plenty of it here. I was shocked. tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Norma has financial backing as a part of RUAG. Their new US distributor is Western Powders/Ramshot/Accurate.

I particularly like URP and MRP. As noted in the review, N 203B is basically Reloder 15, without the lot to lot variances that plague R/L 15.


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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416 Tanzan,

My pleasure. You are correct about the URP load not being the best for 250-grain Nosler Partitions in the 338 Win Mag. With that bullet I would be inclined to work up with MRP, and stop at pressure signs, 2,700 fps, 75-grains, or a nice tight round group; whichever comes first.

There are a few curious cartridge work-ups in this manual. There are no listings with N 204, URP, or MRP for the 404 Jeffery; just an N 217 loading that duplicates original 1905 ballistics.

In any case, this manual is pretty useful. I think the new distribution network is going to help matters a lot.

For some very encouraging URP loads, look at the 30-06 listings for 165-grain and 180-grain bullets weights. Also of note are the 338 Win Mag loads featuring 225-grain bullets.


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Lawndart
Where might I pick one of the new manuals up? Any suggestions?
 
Posts: 4214 | Location: Southern Colorado | Registered: 09 October 2011Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by lawndart:
Norma has financial backing as a part of RUAG. Their new US distributor is Western Powders/Ramshot/Accurate.

I particularly like URP and MRP. As noted in the review, N 203B is basically Reloder 15, without the lot to lot variances that plague R/L 15.


I bought some 203B as a less lot-to-lot-varialble form of RL-15. Thanks for the tip, Bro'Dart. tu2

So Norma-203B is "RL-15 Primo," and Norma-URP is "RL-17 Primo."

That is also very good to know, URP is a very useful and highly efficient powder choice for many cartridges.

Any other powder conversions from Norma to Alliant/RL seconds of which you know?
I have the Norma Manual No. 1 edition, will be wanting the latest also. tu2
I see the Montana address on the Norma 203B cannister ... coffee

NORMA
For Technical Information and Customer Service:
www.westernpowders.com
email: powder@midrivers.com
(406)234-0422
Western Powders, Inc.
Miles City, Montana 59301
MADE IN SWEDEN

http://normapowder.com/

Lots of load data here, circa 2006, but not all of the new stuff:

http://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunit...cademy/Loading-Data/


The .375 Weatherby Magnum loads here are well lawyered and still interesting enough:

http://www.norma.cc/en/Ammunit...75-Weatherby-Magnum/
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
THE NEW NORMA RELOADING MANUAL

http://ads.midwayusa.com/produ...cm_vc=ProductFinding

 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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So is the recent large variability in Alliant RL-10X due to it being a factory second of a Norma powder?
If so, what powder might that be, Norma 201 or Norma 202?
Norma 200 is the fastest rifle powder they make, could that be a RL-7 equivalent?
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Does Alliant get all of their powder as 'seconds' from Norma, or do they, too, get their R-17 direct from Switzerland?

However, the 'lawyering' question is more important for interpreting data.

Does anyone have a manual (Lyman, Sierra, Speer) from the early 1980's? I seem to remember loads of IMR 4350 around 70 grains with 250 grain bullets in .338Win Mag. If that is the case, I find it hard to take a recommendation of 63 grains of URP (a wee bit slower than 4350), seriously as a max load.


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4253 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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Ron,
I think these are supposed to be the equivalents:
N200 = RL-7
N201 = RL-10
N202 = RL-12
N203 = RL-15
N205 = RL-19
MRP = RL-22
though I understand it's 'loose' as the Alliant RL powder are most likely 2nds rather than an overproduction.

Tanz,
I understand that Alliant does get their RL-17 powder directly from Switzerland. I also understand that RL-17 is the only RL powder that is batch-to-batch consistent.

And guys, this information is all 'internet' information so take it for what it's worth...


Jim coffee
"Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid"
John Wayne
 
Posts: 4954 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 15 September 2007Reply With Quote
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quote:

My pleasure. You are correct about the URP load not being the best for 250-grain Nosler Partitions in the 338 Win Mag. With that bullet I would be inclined to work up with MRP, and stop at pressure signs, 2,700 fps, 75-grains, or a nice tight round group; whichever comes first.


Actually, I think that R-17//URP is about ideal for the 338WM because the WinMag doesn't have the overcapacity of the H&H cases or the RUM cases or the Rigby cases. I would expect the URP powder to produce 2700fps without pressure signs, since 4350 used to do that in the 1980's for 250grains in 338WM.

My guess is that the Norma manual stopped the URP powder with the 338WM 250 NP at under 60k pressure. Or perhaps they are aware of some "fast" batches of URP/R17 and must plan accordingly?


+-+-+-+-+-+-+

"A well-rounded hunting battery might include:
500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" --
Conserving creation, hunting the harvest.
 
Posts: 4253 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With Quote
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The Reloder to Norma (Bofors) equivalency is getting murkier for the faster Norma powders.

I am not sure which Norma branded powder corresponds to AR Comp I am GUESSING N-202.

I think (a process that usually turns out badly) that the issue with URP with the 250-grain Partition is that the 250-grain bullet is heavy for bore size; much like a 200 or 220-grain bullet in the 30-06.

You have me curious (another drive of mine that invariably leads to disaster) about this 250-grain in 338 Win Mag. I will have to borrow a rifle in the spring, and do a little test loading.

Capo,

Thanks for the equivalency information. One change is that Norma no longer markets an N 205. Their N 204 is roughly equivalent to RL-19. One addition is Norma N 217. That is equivalent to R/L-33.

I will stop being a water-carrier after one last thought. Norma tends to use powders from the same big lot for their commercial loading & canister sales operations. That is unusual in these industries.


 
Posts: 7158 | Location: Snake River | Registered: 02 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Thanks, y'all.
QuickLOAD is showing Norma 200 to be faster than, but close to RL-7. I want some N-200.
Good substitution.
Of course the local emporium only has 201, 202, and 203B right now.
Powder dribbles in there randomly in 100 pound shipments, catch-as-catch-can-nister of powder. Roll Eyes
Hopefully the RL-17 is not "seconds." tu2
 
Posts: 28032 | Location: KY | Registered: 09 December 2001Reply With Quote
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Been using Ar-comp in 308, also works in 416RM.
 
Posts: 6526 | Location: NY, NY | Registered: 28 November 2005Reply With Quote
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Norma 217 is a their replacement for MRP-2, which they no longer make, and N217 is roughly equivalent in burn rate to Re25.

Re33 is roughly between Re25 and Re50 in burn rate. Re33 was developed for the 338 Lapua Magnum (and the like) for relatively heavy bullets - that is, ~250 grs or better.

Re50 was developed for the 50 BMG - very slow burning.

I'm often puzzled by reloading manuals - the data is very conservative (likely for liability reasons) and contradictory with other manuals...who do you believe...???

My experience fits much better with Quick Load, which I use to begin my load development.
 
Posts: 3720 | Registered: 03 March 2005Reply With Quote
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