The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Shooting technique when regulating sights on 416Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I am in the process of building a 416 Rem, and I am pretty close to being able to do some test firing and sighting in. I’ve hunted with a 375 HH before in Africa, but I haven’t shot anything bigger than that. I would appreciate any pointers on shooting a 416 Rem from the bench. | ||
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No different than your 375...Dont play with your muscle memory. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have my iron sights set for dead on at 100 yards with 400 grain bullets at 2,350 fps. With that setting the bullet point of impact is not below or above 1.50" of point of aim from the muzzle to 150 yards. Beyond 150 yards I am using a scope, and a 1.5-5x or 2.5-8x scope are my primary aiming devices on a 416. Nothing to do with the sights, but if you are new to a 416 do keep your jaw closed when you shoot it until you know how it recoils. I have had my teeth rattled by recoil into my cheek driving my jaw closed from ill-fitting stocks. It's not fun. Also don't stock creep, and use a shoulder strapped recoil pad until you get used to the recoil. Doubled up hearing protection also helps if you are at a covered range. | |||
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Be as upright as you can be, and use a cheater pad. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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As to sight in, I sight in 3"s high with all my rifles short of the 22s. that puts me 4" high at 200 yds, and on the money at 250 to 275 depending on the gun and 5 or 6"s inches low at 300..I then test fire groups at 400 and 500..easy to do in the Idahos BLM..I file in irons 2"s high at 100..test for drop at 200 and 300..depends on caliber. Snug it up into your shoulder, with both hands, lean into the gun snug...Shoot it off hand for several shots to adjust to the recoil...Anyone should be able to handle the 416 Rgby or Rem fairly quick..I developed an immunity recoil by shooting a 458 Lott and a 505 Gibbs, do that and a 416 feels like being hit with a powder puff..Its the best way to conquer recoil as opposed to the usual gab of shooting your big bore with loaded down ammo, thats like shooting an 06 and never helped me much when I switched,, over to my Gibbs..that method started out in some gun rag, and is the normal advise, a big mistake IMO... Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I built a box that c clamps to bench. Bag with ears under the receiver, normal offhand hold while standing. Groups good and end of recoil problems. Scott | |||
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Totally disagree!(with most of the above) Hunkering down at the bench and getting .5 inch groups will Not benefit you in the field. Seen it many times. Guys will treat their hunting rifles like bench resters, and fail to practice under field conditions and positions. Consequently, when they see the animal, the first thing they do is look for the bench and chair. Ain't there and they panic. Probably just around here though. But I see all kinds of bad habits in rifle shooting here on our range. There is a reason English gun makers all had, and used, standing rests. Only used to steady them; nothing else. Train as you fight; if you do that, you won't be surprised. If you cheat and use crutches and artificial methods at the range, you will also do that in the field. If you can't handle the recoil and can't shoot from sticks, etc, get a new hobby. Like catching your brass from an ejector DR. Do it on the range and you will do it in the field; just when the PH wants you to not be doing that. | |||
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Agree. But gotta zero from the bench before anything else. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I would sight in your irons on your 416 at the typical maximum distance you think you are going to use irons: Probably a 100 yards, I would first do that from the bench. Then I would switch to standing from shooting sticks to confirm your POI didn't change at 100. I would then confirm your POI at 50 from sticks is not off. Absolutely "practice as you intend to play" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Sight in, develope loads, at the bench,then practice off hand,if you can shoot off hand, then you will be good in most any position. That said, I recommend sighting in and working up loads from the bench, sitting or standing bench rest, I much prefer the sitting bench rest until I reach my recoil level, then I go to the standing bench rest usually starting with the 470 and up.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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If the recoil is bothersome I found that simply taking a moderately thick terry cloth hand towel and folding it twice and throwing it over your shoulder was effective as any store bought shooting pad. If it is hot outside when you are practicing it will double at wiping sweat off your brow. Inexpensive as well. I found it more useful on my 458 Lott and 470NE. then the 416 does not feel so bad. I stopped there.... | |||
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Use 2 pads… | |||
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This is sound advice,been doing it forever,once you got your load worked & know your poi? shoot freehand standing up,anything else is a waste of time in the field,if I can consistently hit a pie plate upto 100 yrds,I am good with that gun,I do & have used sticks on longer shots. DRSS | |||
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Here's my two cents. My "go to" rifle for everything is a .416 Rem. It's a great caliber. I've shot everything from dik dik to elephant with it in Africa and whitetails and turkey on this side of the pond. It's not a big kicker if your stock fits you. You do need to hold the fore end down when shooting off the bench off sandbags. Agree with what others have said. Sight in your irons, then your scope off sandbags. Then shoot from sticks and positions. Incidentally, I like a Swaro Z6i 1X6 on my .416. Plenty of magnification for any use. I've never shot mine beyond 300 yards on game. On followups, crank that scope down to 1X and turn on the lights and you have a red-dot. Faster than irons, especially with my old eyes. | |||
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I do shoot a lot of big bores off the bench. I use two PAST together, which I put between my shoulder and the stock. Then just shoot as normal. For hunting I sight all rifles - regardless of caliber - to be roughly 1.5 inch high at 100 yards. | |||
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This. When sighting in my .500NE I had a recoil eater and a 1" PAST. Still not that pleasant. I was glad to find out the Trijicon was still sighted in when I tested it from shooting sticks the other day so that I did not need to get back to the bench. Now, the .300 RUM was a tickle when I was sighting it in. | |||
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Don't forget to grit yer teeth, and four letter words are allowed!!!!   Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I always used a standing bench rest, it made all the difference in the world..The largest caliber I shot with it was the 470, 500, and 577, as they were grusome IMHO, but I got by. I might add that my shoulder was not my villiam, it was my cheek bone most of the time..sometimes lowering the comb does not work in my case, then a litte cast off is the fix. If my rifle has a fitted stock, I can't see any benefit to a recoil pad other than it keeps the gun stable while standin in the corner of the room, and a steel butt looks so much nicer..I see so many happy shooters with those hard English rubber pads making funny faces at my steel butt plate, just try that sometime, the rubber hurts worse with its sharp edges.. I can see using some of these methods with a bull elephant tippy towing over to stomp you into gravy !!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I had a standing bench to be more upright. Shooting my 416 Ruger is not a problem off bags. My 416 Rigby is heavier so about the same. My Rigby had the lug for the shoulder strap on the forearm. That will get your attention!!!!! | |||
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I have this to be the most useful for most calibers. | |||
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Personally, I sight dead on a 100 for a .416. That's long enough for most of my shots and it may be a tad high at 50, but close enough. It puts me 6 inches low at 200 and 21 inches low at 300. I've taken very precious few shots beyond 200 and only one at 300 with that rifle. That's what works for me. | |||
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I sight my irons in 2 to 2.5 inches high, as they are to be used for a charging animal, and I remove the scope to go into the bush after them..If an animal is charging as he closes his sweet spot tends to move and I want to see most of his head above my sights as he gets closer and its worked well for me, if I aim at the hairline on the nose of a buffalo I will hit a bit higher and into the brain and know my shot point of impact..I learned this on those paper charging bulls at double rifle shoots, and in discussions with PHs and it works the same on game I'm told, the reason some PHs drop to their knee on a charging cat. That my technique, and it works for me, maybe not everyone. It all started with the advise of Jack O'Connor, advise or scolding it was alway vague!! He was the best rifle shot Ive known in my lifetime, off hand he was one shot Jack on running flags (Coues) Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Old eyes visit all of us. That's why I like an illuminated true one power variable. Only reason to remove the scope is if it is malfunctioning, even on follow up. Used to do that, but not needed anymore. | |||
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If I go into the bush for a wounded bull I want irons, and believe that is the best approach if one even needs a scope on a DG rifle, personally prefer irons. Prefer the receiver sight first then a shallow v barrel mounted..I realize as I age that may change but at 87 it will be a wounded rock chuck more than likely..to each his own but irons served me well over the years, as did scopes.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Ray, I used to like irons for followups, but now with a true one power and illuminated, I just leave the scope on, crank it down and turn on the lights. | |||
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I have never used open sights on my big game rifles. I have followed and finished wounded animals only a few feet away. No secrets to it. You just have to know where to point it. | |||
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I have no ojbection to a 2,5X or 3x scope on a DG rifle, just like the option of irons, it adds to the hunt..Huntingn with irons is fun, and I would never scope one of my doubles, that would compare to incest! or such!  Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The only trouble with using a scope at close ranges is that your bullets will hit from an inch to two+ inches below point of aim. That's because the scope is that much higher than the bore of the rifle. One must remember that key fact, and aim high. That's a lot to do when in a CQB with a DG animal. It has happened to me, but luckily not to my detriment. In my two experiences with scopes at close range, with hippo and elephant, the critter had already given up the fight by the time I missed his brain. No such problem with iron sights. That's why my DG rifles wear zeroed iron sights and scopes in QD mounts. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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plus 1 on that, most will sooner or later figure that out trying to dispatch and animal at point blank, you have to aim high at point blank. It can be critical on a charge at close range..check it out at the range, a quick salvation of a problem. My 416 Rem and 404J Mauser were sighted in 3" high at 100, 4"s high at 200 and dead on at 225-250 yds depending on load and gun I can hold center mass at 375 to 400 yds on large animals..I also sight in for that and fine tune at 400-500 or further on ocassion. Lots of room in our Owyhee desert in Idaho. Same wth irons, but test them to 250-300 yds. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Lead sled for load development and sight in. Sticks or field positions for practice. At 2350 fps, I am an inch and a bit over at 100 yards, puts me on at 150 and 3 inches low at 200. | |||
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I have a lead sled, and Ive broken two stocks on it tied down and out of the box..I think I found the cure, strap it down lightly and add 1.5" of hardish foam in the butt, working so far..but I paid the price, and one on a double rifle, thank goodness I build my own stocks, especially two piece on the double. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I don’t think a lead sled is useful for a double. It wants a standing rest. I don’t restrain my rifle in the sled. A little extra padding behind the recoil pad, 50 lbs of lead, and let it move. So far, so good. | |||
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50 lbs of lead is a restraint I'm  thinking!Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Lead sleds, (and I admit I have never seen one), seem to be a crutch for those who don't like, nor know how, to shoot a rifle. If it kicks you that hard, you need to take up another sport, like quilting or tea with the girls. Back in the hills, we didn't have no lead sleds. We just shot, and killed stuff. I was at the range this week; a guy was shooting his new 350 Legend. He said he bought it because it has no recoil. I just shook my head and continued with my 375. | |||
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When regulating a double rifle I always worked up the loads and tested them in the following way. I piled some cushions in the bench so I could shoot in a total upright position as close to how my body would be if standing without a rest. Then I held the rifle as I would if hunting resting my forend hand on the top cushion and when firing let the recoil take its course. It always worked in the sense that when firing freehand the point of impact was the same..the cushions made it easier to keep on target and focus on trigger squeeze. The upright body position helps with recoil as it would if firing standing. That said, if I were sighting in a 416 bolt gun I would do it from the bench and take the recoil as I am not recoil shy. | |||
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Clayman, your method makes sense. Somewhere in one of these threads years ago, I managed to put up a photo taken from a book whose title I have forgotten of a double-rifle gunsmith or Purdy or Holland regulating a big NE from the standing bench built for the purpose. Reminded me of a church pulpit. I believe someone here even described a shelf-like fixture that could be clamped to one of the posts holding up the roof that shades the firing line. Pretty ingenious. I for one have decided that recoil is no damned fun anymore, if it ever was, but a well-designed stock and as upright a shooting position as possible take much of the punch out of it. I'll see if that photo lurks somewhere. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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I work up loads and sight doubles with holographics on one of these with 50 lbs of lead.  Then I double check regulation and POI on these. Got them from Arjun Reddy.  Then I practice offhand and on regular sticks. In the doubles I have used. I have NEVER seen any changes from the benchrest to offhand. I always check because it is a common story told that it occurs. Those plastic MTM rests will not harm a stock…even with 100lbs of lead. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Shooting technique when regulating sights on 416
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