Put a bore sighter in a rifle and almost all will have the reticle looking low and to the left slightly. Usually 3-7 inches low, I have never had one zero! I got the CZ in 500 Acc Rel sighted in and have shot two jugs filled with water and one pig. All three shots were very close. I just happened to line up the bore and look at the reticle. WOW that's weird! So I borrowed a bore sighter that went to 50 caliber to double check what I saw. The reticle is looking 36" low! I am putting a grind to fit recoil pad on it so I took it out of the stock and rechecked it and its 40" low! Can the bullet really be pushing the barrel down that much and still be "minute of a jug" or pig? Just can't think of anything else that would put the bullet in line of sight.

What type or brand bore sighter? Many of them are only good enough to get you on paper. And of no reliability to check your sights.

Did you collimate the bore sight? Most units have directions for how to adjust the sight so that the optical axis of the scope, bore sight and barrel all line up.

If you just pop in the bore sight and line up the scope and sight at your target, then rotate the bore sight 90 degrees you'll be amazed how much the reticle in the bore sight will shift in relation to the target.

I have a Bushnell collimator model 74-4001 in the shop and it is rarely more that two inches off in any direction. I did send three Bushnells back two years ago that were several feet off. Each was off the exact same amount. Must have been bad factory calibration.

I have a Bushnell and it gets on the paper and that's about as good as it gets. If I check a gun that is sighted in, the crosshairs almost always appear low and right on the grid. The crazy part is zeroing a corresponding amount high and left doesn't work. Then I'm usually off the paper. Mine is very old and I would replace it in a minute if I could find one that gets me within a couple inches of center.

I have two old Bushnell bore sighters from the 1960's and they are usually within 4 inches of bullet impact. Both have the expanding arbors instead of the solid arbors that have a spring .

But most of the time I use my red neck bore sighter. My pump house is 95 yards from my shop window at the work bench. I nailed the white lid from a 5 gallon bucket to the pump house and use it to bore sight: The rifle is in a rest and I take the bolt out and sight through the bore. The round lid is easy to center in the bore by adjusting the rest. Then I adjust the cross hairs to the center of the lid. This usually gets me to within 2 inches on paper at the range.

After sight in I mount the bore sighter and record the grid count at the scope cross hair image. I make a little diagram that stays in the gun case along with the bore sighter, so If I take a long trip with the rifle I can quickly use the bore sighter to see if the alignment has changed.

i also have a bushnell and it always puts me 4"high and 4" to the left

I have used several different brands of bore sighters aver the years. Most are good enough to get you on paper at 25 yards or so. You did not state how your rifle groups on paper or at what yardage. High, low right or left?

I have an old wore out Bushnell and it always keeps me within 4 or 5 inches of the bulleye at 100 yards,and many times in the bull. I see no point in using a 25 yard target unless you don't have a bore sighter.

All one should expect is to get the first shot on the paper at 100, then make an adjustment and your sighted in..but test fire a few groups to fine tune is a good idea...Its not a miracle object but it sure can save you a ton of ammo..

The "red neck" bore sighting is what started this! It shows the reticle to be very low from where the bore is looking. The Bore sighter just confirmed it. The scope is just about out of adjustment. There is a static zero, when you look through the bore or use a bore sighter to align the reticle. Then there is a live zero, basically where the bullet really impacts in relative to the reticle. On this rifle the two are extremely far apart! It was on target enough to hit a DEF jug, a one gallon oil jug and a pig at about 100 yrds. This is a light rifle for caliber. Recoil is stout, groups will be "hey its close!". Both the barrel band for the sling and the front sight are silver soldered on. The barrel does not appear to be bent or warped. The barrel appears to be square with the action. This is the older long throat 500 AR. I just have never had a rifle with a huge difference between the static and live zeros. Hoping someone on here had a real "why".

Besides 'Gremlins', I can think of the following possibilities:

- If you shoot using a sling, downward or sideways pressure on the barrel would change point of impact.

- Uneven contact between the stock's fore end and the barrel.

- Loose screws in either the scope bases or scope rings.

- Scope bases, or even rings, are crooked or otherwise uneven. Maybe the front base or ring is a little bit higher than it should be, thus putting the reticle too high above the axis of the bore.

- One of those unsolvable mysteries that plague rifle shooters.

Live Oak, from your description I would bet dollars to donuts that you need to have your action surface ground square to the world..Your adjustments should be very close to the center of you focal plane when sighted in..If your on the edge of your adjustments then all is wrong. probably some smith ground up the action improperly, but I have seen a number of factory guns just as bad..Some folks shim the adjustments but that's a poor fix..If your adjustments are not center or close to center when sighted in your getting a bad sight picture and the scope usually has a difficult time holding its zero, its just unacceptable. what you describe is consistant with a bore sighter not working.

Not an expert but here are a few thoughts. Not sure if they are relevant or will help you.

How do you shoot? If from a bench - how do you rest your rifle?

I have found that some rifles that are not free floated will shoot a bit away from bore sight "zero".

All rifles will shoot high if I rest the fore end on a firm surface. A rifle with stock contact on barrel channel AND a fore end rest will shoot way higher on the bench.

When shooting off a bench I always rest the magazine on the rest and hold the fore end with my hand and rest the hand or fist on the bench.

My 416 Rigby shot to same POI off sticks and the bench. But off hand it always shot a bit low at 50 meters - say 3 inches low & 1 inches to the left. I guess this was me pulling the rifle down as I squeeze the trigger.

Three bore sighters show the same thing. No loose screws. rings are right, there are no bases. Action surface is a real maybe. It is a CZ and a McGowen build. Same sand bag setup I use on all my rifles, two are consistent sub MOA. I have tried several things and something total different and will test it Saturday. Same scope I had on a Ruger #1 in 458 Lott and it shot like a lazer! Perplexing is that it hit what I aimed at!

Since nobody has mentioned this yet..... have you checked the barrel crown for being even and concentric to the bore? With any bore sighter mandrel that uses the crown as a point of contact, I would suspect that an uneven or off center surface there would cause the bore sighter to not align correctly.

Crown looks good. First time I cleaned the bore felt rough. Second time I got the thing ultra clean and got out the JB Bore Bright. A bottle of Hoppes, a jar of JB, a third of a jar of Bore Bright and about 750 patches later the thing shoots about 27 inches low now! So I lost about 12 inches off the live zero. I am going to keep on with Bore Bright and see if the live zero get closer! We'll see!