A few weeks ago I received my Ruger #1 back from my favorite gun plumber with a new barrel in .405 Winchester. I knew when I chose this caliber that it has it's limitations but it seemed to be a caliber in need of a friend.



I've since played with it and the available projectiles with the goal of developing a practice/fun load, a deer load and a big game load. So far, I've used the Hornady 300gr JFP, Oregon Trail 265gr WNFP/gc, Barnes 300gr X-bullet and Barnes 400gr Solid.

The Hornady bullet seems prone to losing it's jacket and accuracy was ho-hum at 2.5" @ 100yds. The X bullet I managed to recover was a textbook "X" and accuracy is a bit better at 2" when velocity is around 2,300fps.

The Oregon Trail WNFP is a .41 Mag bullet. With two grease grooves and gas check it's apparently good to go 2,000fps with no leading in my rifle and groups are @ 1.5" at 100yds using H4895. This one will become my play and deer load.

I bought the 400gr solids on a lark, I know I'll never need them to shoot anything I can afford to hunt. I consulted two powder mfg, three bullet mfg and a witch doctor for load data. Ended up taking a deep breath and guessing a starting load with Varget that was around 1,700fps (and grouped into 1.5" at 100yds!?!). The more powder I poured in the better the groups got.

Today with a pretty well compressed load I shot this group at fifty yards (100yd range was unavailable).



Chronograph reading for this load averaged 1,990fps at 15' from the muzzle. That's going to leave a mark on any critter that gets in it's way.

I've got 400gr X's on order, I think this rifle likes heavier bullets instead of the lite stuff.

On to hunting season!

Rick

Rick R
Nice looking rifle, shoots good too.
For a good 300 or 400 gr. bullet that woll expand good on deer and pigs at that velocity try some
www.hawkbullets.com with the .025jkt. For deeper penetration on bigger game, elk, bear, etc get the 400gr in the .035jkt.

NE 450 No2,

Thanks, I'm pleased with the way it turned out. I've called Hawk and the helpful fellow there is sending me a catalog and price list. The UPS guy brought my 400gr Barnes X bullets today, they look like they'd do damage just dropping one on your foot in the reloading room
Rick

[ 05-22-2003, 01:15: Message edited by: Rick R ]

Rick, who is your gun plumber and what make of gun barrel did he use? Also, what contour did you choose for your barrel. Seems like a nice piece.

Rick,

'Tis a beauty ... and the group is a great start! Now for 100 yards.

I just about cracked up on the comment about dropping a bullet on your foot in the loading room

Mike D,

I use a local guy who get his barrel blanks from Douglas. He used a contour that nearly duplicated the old barrel (7mm Mag) until out past the stock and then he increased the diameter from the original in deference to the bore diameter leaving it with a 0.70" muzzle and 24" long. Have you ever used Kerry O'Day on Treshwig? He used to do good work and has a bit of a whimsical side (he built a #1 in .458WM with a 1.25" diameter bbl and a muzzle brake one time just to have the biggest "varmint rifle" in captivity). If you call him tell him I sent you, won't help you any, but it'll remind him of the $50.00 I still owe him.

Mike S,
I'll have you know I wore my steel toed house slippers while loading some of them projectiles this evening. Does the knife in the picture look familiar?

Rick

[ 05-22-2003, 03:01: Message edited by: Rick R ]

Rick,

How about e-mailing a copy of that picture in a larger size? Might use it on my web site at some point. Looks almost as nice as the rifle

What twist is the barrel, Rick? - Dan

Dan,

It's a 1 in 14" barrel.

Just got back from the range today and the 400gr X's are apparently going to group as well as the solids and with a bit of load adjustment the group centers will be very close at 100yds.

It's really too bad the 300gr bullets group 7" higher than the 400gr with the 265's in between. But I feel like a guy at a picnic whining because he got cake, pie and ice cream but ran out of hands to carry the root beer float.

It's all good

Rick

Uh, my Cape Gun shoots the Hornady ammo at 2380 fps 10' from the muzzle...are cats getting tougher of late?

RickR
What velocity are you getting with the 400gr. loads in the 405 No1?

NE 450 No2,

I went shooting again today and obtained average readings of 2,010 fps for the 400gr X and 2,040 for the 400gr solid. I'm using an old Chrony with all it's eccentric quirks so take that with a grain of salt but in two days of shooting the same loads were @2,000fps. No real pressure signs but I'm basically out of room for any more Varget and accuracy is good enough, recoil is more than good enough.

DigitalDan,
I got an average of 2,250fps for the Hornady factory .405 load. What's a "Cape Gun"?
(not afraid to show my ignorance)

Far as I know the cats are no tougher, but every discussion I've seen on the .405 dealt with it's worthy-ness on dangerous game. My little single shot is a NDGR and the only "Death in the tall grass" around here is if the groundhogs start charging.

Rick

[ 05-23-2003, 05:01: Message edited by: Rick R ]

Rick R Your words "405 Its not a dangerous game rifle" I don't know.... but a 40 cal 400gr bullet at 2000+ fps sounds pretty dangerous to me.
A "cape" gun is a side by side with one rifle bbl and one shotgun bbl.

NE 450 No2,

Ok, thanks, a "Cape Gun" sounds like a pretty good deal for someone that had to make a go of it with one gun in Africa.

I've wanted a #1 for years, and wanted it in an old historic caliber. The .405 looked like it could be pretty versatile. I didn't realize that I'd be ready to hunt anything from Marmot to Mammoth (if they make a comeback around here).

If my trip to RSA for plains game goes through next year I'll be taking the #1 for an adventure.

Rick

PS ~ I've got a synthetic stocked Mauser being rebarrelled to 9.3X62 as a backup gun. Insurance in case my .405 ammo gets lost in transit.

[ 05-23-2003, 06:05: Message edited by: Rick R ]

Try Benchmark instead of Varget. It seems to give better results in the 45/70 with heavy bullets. Should be similar in the .405 as both are large bore straight wall cases.

[ 05-23-2003, 06:49: Message edited by: jnc91 ]

Hi Rick,

I have been working with the powder that Ken Waters named as his favorite "Reloader 7" and so far am impressed. The 300 grain Hornady's are running 2100 fps outta my 16" barrel(still over 2 grains under his listed max load ), what a handful! I have not worked this load up to max as it is purty brutal. I have also worked with the 265 WFN from Cast Performance, the 265 WLN from True Shot and the 270 FN from Leadheads. All the cast bullets shot well for me. I am currently working on a varmint load using Remingtons 210 JSP and am also going to try the 170 Sierra's this weekend. Accuracy work is to begin shortly.... My barrel is also a 1-14" and i am curious if the 400+ grain bullets will stabilize in the short 16" barrel, gonna have to give em a try!

BTW, Who's brass are you using? I have only purchased the Hornady at this point....

MSSMagnum and JNC91,
Thanks I'll give those powders a try.

The only affordable brass I've found is the Hornady stuff. It seems pretty well made and consistent but I've not gone to the trouble of weighing cases. I guess picking an "obsolete" cartridge has some drawbacks as to component availabillity. I bought mine at Midway but when I tried to buy some more last week they were out till sometime in August. FWIW, Barnes has discontinued all their .411 bullets except the 300gr .405 bullet but it's no slouch in the expansion department:



This one was recovered after penetrating @30" into water soaked turf at 160yds.

The True Shot 265gr is the lead bullet I've been using. I think that flat nose contributes to the KaWhoomp! when shooting that bullet at steel plates. It's hard enough to put a pretty good dimple in them too. At $19 per hundred I believe it will become my favorite bullet for 90% of my shooting and I just received 200 more of them.

waiting for hunting season

Rick

All the cast bullets and the Hornady 300's i have shot at a 5/16" plate have put some serious holes in it! LOL! This is the most HP i have ever shot in a handgun and WOW!, it is serious. I have not loaded any bullets to max pressure and dont think that i will try with the heavies, just too much recoil. Keep us posted on your load development. I did try AA2015 and the initial loads did not seem to be as consistent but my chrono was on the blink again, so...... Looks like i will get the latest 210 & 170 grain loads shot tomorrow.

EDIT: Shot any chucks yet? I will have the 210 load developed by the time the farmers have first cutting off and then i hope to get the thing bloody!

[ 05-24-2003, 06:40: Message edited by: MSSmagnum ]

Rick R, I posted load info in the single shot pistol forum for MSSmagnum. I think it's on page two or just do a 405 search. Its from Rifle Magazine and Hornady's new manual.

How do you go about finding a Witch Doctor? PHONE BOOK . I could probably use one every now and then.

I shot the 170 grain test loads today, wimpy (for a 405 ). The Sierra's did shoot well and i gotta imagine that at that kinda speed that they would tear a varmint in half, LOL! The Remingtons shot ok and would be good enough for short range. The 405 CONTINUES to impress me with it recoil!

Joe Mack, I got three bullet dies to reduce 44 caliber bullets (0.430") to 0.416. They work well in my 416VVC, I haven't tried them in my 416 taylor yet. It's nice only paying $15 dollars for a 100 bullets instead $22 or more for 50 bullets. My wrist and hand really appreciate shooting 240 or 270 grain bullets instead of 350 or 400 grain bullets.

RAS 323,

Thanks for the data. As for the Witch Doctor their Union Local is listed in the Yellow Pages

Mr. Mack,

Who makes the reduction dies? That sounds like a real handy thing to acquire.

I like the accuracy I'm getting with the Barnes bullets, but do they ever foul a bore! If I fire fifteen rounds it's good for a half hour of cleaning with CR10, brushes and elbow grease.

I've had enough range work with this gun, I think it's time to go hunt chucks or yotes or something.

Rick

Rick R.,
Z-Hat has bullet reducing "ring Dies" and CH&4D sell bullet reducing dies (Both are for Jacketed Bullets).
I got mine from CH&4D. Dave at CH&4D say 0.004" reduction in diameter is about the most per die. I cheated a little and got 3 dies, one goes from 0.429" to 0.424."
Z-Hat says 0.005" is about max per ring. Their dies have one or a series of rings. I order one from Z-Hat for 25 cal rifle bullets a couple of weeks ago, it should be here soon. Oh yeah Z-Hat says the max reduction for their ring die is 0.009"

Rick R,

I got mine from Corbin Mfg. www.swage.com RCE also has them. These guys are the leaders in bullet making/swaging. I keep getting asked why I don't just get a .416. I just tell'um it's a little too big for my liking as I collect .41s not .416s. RKBA!

Thanks guys.

I think I'll call one of those places on Tuesday and order a die. I assume (dangerous word) that they work in a reloading press?

Hornady makes a 400gr SP Interlock in .416, wonder how the Interlock feature responds to being squished? And I see Speer now has a 350gr MagTip. This means a lot more range work and load development.

My sons were visiting me today and the oldest wanted to go shooting. We tried to catch a 400gr X in a line of four two-liter soda bottles backed up by three one gallon jugs, backed by four more two-liter bottles all filled with water at fifty yards. Big eruption of water, bullet veered out of the last row of two liter bottles leaving two untouched and disappearing off into the embankment. Oh well, guess this load will penetrate.

Rick

Hi Rick, just curious what you found out on the dies? I just might invest in a set meself for reducing .429 bullets....

I am working on a trade for some X bullets now, 300's & 350's. Think i am gonan try these in the 414 also....

Just a note on the bullet reducing dies. I have the ZHat ring die with .413 and .411 rings. I use it in a Rockchucker press. It takes a good bit of force to reduce .416 Hornady 400's, even using the .413 as an intermediate step. It helps to back the die out until there is only about 3 or 4 threads engaged initially, and then screwing it down further after starting it here (better mechanical advantage). I would expect a thinner jacket to be considerably easier to reduce, but I have not tried this yet. Be sure to use a good lubricant before swaging.

I recently ordered a Walnut Hill swaging press from RCE, so hopefully this will simplify the process (I am getting a point forming die for "bumping up" some .375's for use in a double with a .378+ barreled double).

Jim

Well, it looks like dropping .429" bullets to .410" is not a very good idea...

quote:

---

Richard Corbin
A jacketed bullet can be reduced about .010" to .012" depending
on the bullet's construction without damage to the bullet. Even at .010"
of reduction there will start to be some problems developing such as a
loose core and banana shaped bullets. Going from .429 to .410" would be
a reduction of .019" plus .001" springback allowance so the total
resizing would be twice the usual maximum.

If you just wanted some slugs to work up loads or just bang down
range you could resize the .44's but they' be pretty poor bullets. It
would be much better to make .410's from scratch.

Richard Corbin

---

Mike,

I've allowed myself to get sidetracked by inconsequential stuff, like work and havent' called any of the die makers. I did look a Corbin's website and apparently a die to swage down to .411 is going to run @$130.00. It will take a lot of swaging to make that economical for my uses. I could see doing it for a fine old rifle in an obsolete caliber but they still make .411 bullets, they're just harder to find.

I may break down and do it, or I may just find a mold that gives me a 400gr .412" bullet and shoot that.

Rick

Its my understanding that North Fork is currently developing a 360 grain bullet in .411". I'm not sure when it will become available, but they are working on it. The bullet is designed to work at 411 Hawk velocities, and Mike Brady is working with Fred Zeglin to develop some load data.