what needs to be done to a Standard Mauser 98 to build it into a .404??

Mike

I've had it done, and to be honest, I'd just get a CZ magnum action if I had to do it all over. I really love my rifle (I've had pictures posted here and it's a beauty) but the birthing pains weren't fun.

BTW, CZ will sell "three position" safeties for 550 models as a drop-in after market item. I've just ordered one for my .375 that's being prettied up. They cost less than $70. I didn't even know they were available until I received shipment on a 9.3x62 550 Lux that had one on it.

They seem to work great and are the conventional back.. locks everything and takes the firing pin out of battery, middle.. bolt can be operated, but not the trigger, forward... fire.

I don't know if the option is available for the backward safety on a 527, but I'd sure like to see one.

[ 05-02-2003, 20:05: Message edited by: JudgeG ]

Thanks judge.

I was particularly curious about the Mauser's because I thought they were to short for a .404

I am unfamiliar with how they make .375's and .404's fit without hogging out needed metal as mentioned in the Kuhnhaeusen manual.

Mike

I would get a good m-98 Mauser, have it surface ground, D&T, Talley bolt, Blackburn 404 drop box magazine and trigger, polish it up and have custom fitted Talley bases, then a Lothar Walther barrel cut to Holland and Holland specs, a 3 inch quarter rib ala Holland & Holland, barrel band swivel and barrel band front sight, a good rust blue, a good Turkish walnut stock done in English style and your in business...Feed and function first and accuracy second. Fill my RWS or Norma cases with 93 grs. of IMR-4831, Fed 215 primers, GS custom or Bridger solids and North fork or Woodleigh softs..and never look back.

Done well, they are beautiful on the '98.

So the 98 has the action length necessary for these rounds? No removing metal behind the lug?

What is O.A.L. for the .404?

Thanks for the answers..

Mike

P.S. Who is Blackburn and does he have a website?

Mike

Ready...:

I'm not really disagreeing with Ray. What I guess I'm saying is that you'd better be ready to spend more money if you go with the Mauser (Ray didn't mention the bottom metal/drop box, safety work, bolt mods, for instance). But money being secondary to the pleasure of having a one of a kind rifle, just be sure to have someone who has learned his lessons on a previous rifle to do the work. Mine was a learning experience with three gunsmiths involved before it got perfect...

So, my advice is that you get someone like Jack Belk, John Ricks or others so qualified to do your metal work. Call Customstox for the wood. You'll have a jewel.

I'm looking at A-Square's diagram of the .404. O.A.L. is 3.530". For comparison, the same book listed the .375 H&H as 3.6".

Remember, too, that a Jeffery case is quite fat and it takes up lots of room in the magazine. Most folks want a very minimum of three in the mag with one in the chamber in a DGR. More is better. Mauser actions can cause a problem if your magazine won't feed that forth cartridge from the stack and you try to hand feed it (i.e., the extractor doesn't "jump" the rim on closing the bolt... voila, you get a stuck cartridge in the chamber and end of shooting until a rod stuck down the barrel knocks out the stuck round.... not so good with a charging buffalo). Still, even if the bolt won't close on the forth round down, when, like my rifle, the cartridge will feed from the magazine, and then close on the remaining three, you have a winner. Still, I wish my rifle held another in the mag... but what the hey?

I'm not sure that anyone can make a regular Mauser magazine hold three down and feed the forth. Therefore, I'd just plan on a Blackburn drop box from the get-go and sometimes you can even get five rounds in the gun and ready to rock and roll.

So, if you've got the funds and the time... go for it! Post pictures. It will be like having a child... about as expensive, too.

[ 05-03-2003, 06:49: Message edited by: JudgeG ]

Thanks Judge...I am not really considering building one I was just curious about the fit..

My next Mauser will be done in .458WM..and it will be a while I haven't even fired my Whelen discussed on the Gunsmithing section under VZ-24 project...

Thanks again for the info..

Mike

The 404 Jeffery is shorter than the 375 H&H, However it is fatter.

What Blackburn and myself do when we build the guards. We relocate the rear of the box back as far as we can go. You need to remachine the rear of the rails to accept the box. Then .040" is machined from the bolt stop to add to the travel.

Now for the fun part, the 404 box is 1.010 wide at the rear. The 8 x 57 box is just .900" wider. This is as wide as I feel comfortable taking a M 98. So there is a lot of rail work to do to get the 404 to feed correctly in a M 98.

One of my personal project is a 404 on a Obendorf 1935 action. Once I get it done I will post some pictures later.

The good part is having this box the correct width, we now have 4 rounds in a standard depth box. I also make Mauser type followers to fit these guards.

I have to machine some 404 guards for the M 98 later this summer, for those who are interested.

Jim Wisner

JudgeG---Could you please post a part number and/or where you purchase the 3 position safety for the CZ550 that you talked about in your reply? Thanks in advance.

Thanks Jim...so from what y'all have said 3.49" is about all a mauser wants to do and anything longer needs major mods..

I can see how in days past when the Mauser was the only readily available decent action out there, how gunsmiths like yourself would be very, very busy building these..

I appreciate your thoughts and can't wait to see he pics...I'm really enamored with Mauser's right now.

Mike

Congo:
I have already erased the e-mail that had the info, but if you'll go to www.cz-usa.com and either e-mail or call them, they will give you the info. If you have a credit card and call them, they'll send the part a.s.a.p.
Hope this helps.

[ 05-03-2003, 21:06: Message edited by: JudgeG ]

Jim W. and Judge Ern

Is the box on a CZ for a 375 "wide enough" for a 404 do you widen it or do you still have to get a Mauser 404 box??? I know you can use the mauser magazine to build a 404 but it will never feed properly without widening the box. I know the CZ has a drop box and that is needed with a 404 to hold more ammo and for cosmetics as well IMO. I can't abide a big bore without a drop box.

I guess my question is how do you set up the CZ when converting to a 404 Jefferys from a 416 rem or 375, or do you use a 416 Rigby.

Wouldn't converting a 416 Rigby (Classic African DG Cartridge that pushes a 400-grain bullet 2400 fps) to 404 Jeffery (another classic African cartridge that pushes a 400-grain bullet to 2400 fps) be a case of leaving via your front door, traveling to London, Brisbane, Los Angeles and back to your house in order to come in the back door? It's a nice complicated, expensive trip, but you really didn't go anywhere.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

GA,
I suspect your assumption is about spot on but whats that got to do with it, were dealing here with gunnuts, who ever said they hac a brain and it they did they would convert it to something else

Converting a Mauser 98 to 404 is a simple process as described by Jim W...I can remove the 40 thou in front with my fingernail, thats not a lot of metal...

Judge Ern,
The cost comes in making the 98 "purty" and btw Ern, I did mention the drop box, reread my post..but your application of the cost process is correct...but what if one used a nice Sears or ? FN then the cost would be much much less...and the FN is fine for a 404....John Ricks did my 10.75 x 68 to a 404 with a Blackburn box for not a lot of money....the box cost more than the conversion.

Ray:
Sorry about missing the drop box part.

My .404 has a regular Mauser box upon which is a welded extention below. It retains the standard width.. It must have taken forever to fabricate and could have been avoided by just buying one made for the purpose. It feeds just fine now, as fast as I can cycle it, sometimes even feeding empty cases if you keep the speed just right... but, and that's a but as big as Oprah's... it certainly didn't do it the first try. Porpoising, jamming, and not being able to close the bolt on three down were early problems.

I finally got Roger Ferrell, a member of the Guild who lives in the Atlanta area, to fix the dadgum thing, and now it is as smooth as spitting watermelon seeds.

As to the issue about the .375 box... Ray, I just don't know. I think you're right, as usual. Find a real commercial Mauser like the "sleeper" Sears model, and have at it with a pro doing the work.

I think I have a moral duty to get John Ricks to do something for me since we grew up only a mile from each other and were in the same high school class. John is anal-retentive, which I believe is a great asset for an engineer and/or a gunbuilder.

Perfection in a DGR is not a luxury, but a necessity, and John can do it... as well can several other member 'smiths who we laypersons are fortunate enough to be fellow posters.

And Ray... feel really guilty about pressuring me to sell the Brno. I'll cry every night.

[ 05-06-2003, 03:51: Message edited by: JudgeG ]

Ern,
I've found that if I catch you after a few toddies in the evening your much easier to deal with, I will remember you in my will, but figgure you will die first because of your sinfull living...

I have a real problem with building a 404 out of a CZ in 416 Rigby, I'd just as soon leave it a 416 Rigby if I have to use that big ole action anyway....

The beauty of a 404 and 416 Rem is the smaller more compact action...In my sometimes not so humble opeinnion and I apologise to all for that hard headed attitude I have from time to time, but when my head is made up its a done deal for the most part....

Let's talk money for a minute.

For a VZ-24 in normal condition(some minor pitting as usual) in order to receive a blued, fully functional, with say Talley Ruger style bases, and a Lothar Walther barrel...

No stock because they are so variable and no engraving...Just a barreled action with all alterations necessary for scope use what kind of price tag are we talking?

I believe SABI's are about $3500 but that is with a stick of walnut on it..

Mike

ready on the right said--

quote:

---

I can see how in days past when the Mauser was the only readily available decent action out there, how gunsmiths like yourself would be very, very busy building these..

---

You must remember that Mauser MADE actions to fit the big African calibers. They're longer and WIDER and have magazine boxes to fit the caliber ordered.

The number Nineteen action was made for the 404 Jeffery. To buy one takes an industrial strength bank account, though. In fact it's about as expensive to build one on a smaller military action as it is to find a super-rare #19 action as a foundation.......the military actions are plentiful BUT the workers to convert them are rare and expensive. Take your pick.