retreever,

Yes I did and thank you! Your explanation matches exactly to the way the local range officer told me to shoot heavy recoiling guns, in that case a 12 gauge slug gun, but the principles are the same.

Thanks again,
ASS_CLOWN

A friend just bought a Markel 500Ne regulated for Wesley Richards or Kynoch ammo 570 grs softs...
What loads and what powder is to be used if reloaded..
I do not shoot a double yet..looking for some advise and expertise here...

Thanks for the help...


Mike
11 weeks till Zim

I have seen loads of between 104 and 109 grains of IMR 4350 listed. I have also seen 112 to 116 grain of IMR4831 referenced for use in the 500 NE and the 570 gr Woodleigh.

Good luck.

ASS_CLOWN

AC did you get my private message I sent you ...Mike

I use 94grs. RL 15, Federal 215M primer, and a Kynoch foam over powder wad cut in half. I cut the wad in half because there is only about 1/4" from the top of the powder to the bottom of the bullet when loaded and the wads are about 1" long. This load gives about 2130-2155 fps. in my gun and regulates well. BTW this load gives CONSIDERABLY less perceived recoil than the other loads listing 105-110grs. of slower powders. The .500 NE loaded this way kicks only slightly more than my .470NE

I find it hard to believe, the slightly less powder resulting in less felt recoil that is, but I guess stranger things have happened.



Never noticed a recoil difference between 51.5 grains of IMR4064 and 60 grains of IMR4831 in my 30-06 with the 180 Sierra Pro Hunters. Perhaps it is just me.



ASS_CLOWN

16% less powder is not what I call slightly less powder. That much less powder in a heavy recoiling gun will be noticeable. Comparing similar differences in a 30-06 is not a valid comparison because this not even close to being a heavy recoiling weapon. Before further criticism I suggest you TRY what I have suggested then share with us your impressions. I have already done the heavy work. Working up loads in a .500 NE is something akin to going a few rounds with Mike Tyson every weekend. But if you must,try it for yourself. The beauty of this forum is that you usually don't have to do everything yourself, there's almost always someone who's tried it before you.

Remember:"Experience is the best teacher however, only a fool can learn by no other means".

The above quote is why I use books, reference material, and sage advice when I can get it.


Cheers, Geronimo

Scott,
I'll second G's comment... build you a 500 something and see what the F* this feels like.. there is NO recoil in a 30-06, at least compared to any 5000+ ft/lbs rifle

build you a 510 wells... get a cz and send it to wells.. get a enfield and come down here for a week...

jeffe

Geronomo,

Quote:

---

Before further criticism I suggest you TRY what I have suggested

---

Is that an invitation to shoot your 500 NE? If that is what you are saying, I would be very pleased to accept such an offer!!!



EDIT



I did not mean to sound like I was critical. I am skeptical though, and I admit that I have no experience with such powerful rifles. In defense of my I provide the following data:



30-06 loads

180 grain bullet

51.5 grains IMR4064

Total bullet and powder weight - 231.5 grains

Percentage of powder weight (powder wt / total wt) = 22.25%



30-06 loads

180 grain bullet

60 grains IMR4831

Total bullet and powder weight - 240 grains

Percentage of powder weight (powder wt / total wt) = 25%



500 NE loads

570 grain bullet

94 grains of REl 7

Total bullet and powder weight - 664 grains

Percentage of powder weight (powder wt / total wt) = 14.16%



500 NE loads

570 grain bullet

109 grains of IMR4350

Total bullet and powder weight - 679 grains

Percentage of powder weight (powder wt / total wt) = 16.05%



Looking at these numbers I figured that since the powder charge weight of the 30-06 was a greater percentage of the total mass being accelerated than in the 500 NE, that a reduction in felt recoil would be more evident in the 30-06. If this isn't the case I apologize. I just hope you can better understand my thinking now, and my reasoning for being skeptical. As I have said before I have NO experience with any powerful big bore rifles (the 50 Beowulf being my sole experience)



ASS_CLOWN

The powder weight does not affect recoil as a factor of being a percentage of the projectile weight, but rather as a factor of the accellerant mass. The powder starts as a solid but leaves as an almost weightless gas having converted that mass to energy on ignition. It is this transfer of energy along with the usual cascade of events that follows that we perceive as recoil. Therefore the powder weight has to be considered in the equation separately and not as part of the projectile weight. All that being said, I again say and you can lay money on it: In a heavy recoiling gun, if decrease the powder weight by 10% or more, all other factors being equal, YOU WILL NOTICE IT ! You can put that in the bank and draw interest on it.

Geronimo

Geronomo,

I think I get it. Basically it isn't the bullet/powder momentum that causes recoil, but it is the so-called "rocket effect" associated with the gaseous expellant which provides the kick. In that case I understand fully how a should work. Since your 94 grains of Rel 7 is approximately 57 greater than my 30-06 load with 60 grains of IMR4831, your 500 NE must recoil about 57% harder than my 30-06. While if I used the 109 grain load of IMR4350 in the 500 NE it would kick about 82% harder than my 30-06. WOW!!! I see now exactly what you meant!

By the way, I gathered from your last post that you did not invite me shoot that 500 NE of yours. That is too bad,as I cannot think of anything that would have been cooler!

ASS_CLOWN

No I still don't think you have it. There is is not a straight line proportion to recoil. It is not a simple ratio as you have inferred. The recoil from a .500NE is approximately 69-76ft/lbs depending on the weight of the rifle. The recoil from a 30-06 is about 22-25ft/lbs also depending on rifle weight. The effects of overcoming inertia, the design of the stock, and the distribution of weight in a given gun can have a substantial effect on what we describe as recoil. This is why you will frequently hear the term "perceived recoil" used by many of us who shoot heavy recoiling guns. It's not just the raw recoil numbers we are talking about, but also the sharpness of the "kick" as well as how a particular gun or load(from our initial discussion) transmits that impulse to the shooter. This is another reason why so much emphasis and discussion takes place on double rifle threads about balance, stock fit, stock design, etc.

Geronimo

Okay so I don't got it. I'll be honest, this recoil stuff is over my head. I guess it is just safe to say a 500 NE kicks alot harder than a 30-06. I bet I got that right.

ASS_CLOWN

Geronomo,
Very little of the powder mass is converted to energy. The escaping gas does have slightly less mass than the cold powder, but a much higher temperature and volume, and a different chemical composition. We are not talking thermonuclear explosions when a primer ignites powder.

In your zeal to educate *** ***** you have overstated the conversion of mass into energy, a little bit. Otherwise a great elucidation.

I am sure *** ***** could look up the fractional conversion of mass into energy by combustion of gun powder if he wanted to.