Somebody was talking up the idea of loading .458/.458 lott with wads from a .410 and making shotshells for use round camp against varmints.

Anybody actually tried this? what wads, what shot size, how wide a group? Been asked to load some for use up north where handgun ownership is a problem

quote:

Originally posted by Don Heath:
Somebody was talking up the idea of loading .458/.458 lott with wads from a .410 and making shotshells for use round camp against varmints.

Anybody actually tried this? what wads, what shot size, how wide a group? Been asked to load some for use up north where handgun ownership is a problem

I didn´t reload, but used the original shells.
I made a "stoppring" (ca. 3.8 mm long, 12 mm inner dia, 13,5 outer dia) which functions as the rim.
But I prefer a light .22 lr rifle like the Remington 597.

With the twist in the barrel, and its centrifugal effect, effective range would not be far. The Italians make special shotguns with rifles for very short range shooting at Woodcock. I have seen them in use, and 30-40 feet is maximum range, but I think their twist is a lot slower than a Lott.

Here is one way that shot loads were made for rifles. This is a 45-70 with a hollow, hard wood sabot, filled with shot. It measures about .445" out side of the case. This is under boresize, probably to help it breakup when fired. I have not taken one of these rounds apart, as they are collectable, but it should have a base plug to help push the load down the barrel.



I would stay with smaller sizes of shot, to get the heaviest payload, still will not be much but should work for snakes and such, within 2-3 of yards.

Hog Killer

It can be done but unless you find a recipe you would need trial and error. You would need a certain amount of projectile weight to get the powder to burn sufficently to getvelocity, eithr case since there would be minimal shot and no choke range would be limited
A 28 gauge shotshell is near 50 caliber sinse I use the cups off the wads on my 50 caliber ML
There are some oddball shotguns in 32 gauge which might work either way use 410 spec's use an over powder wad made of card board put in shot and seal with cardboard and a liitle glue to hold it together it should work fine
The shell will not feed properly since it would be flat.

April?1976 issue of TAR had article on 45ACP shotshells using cut 410 plastic wads&heavy paper overshot wads.i used a chamfered case as a wadcutter.dont see why a fulllength 410 wad,1/2oz shot using 410 loading data wouldnt work with a heavy paper overshot wad. the 45ACP loads would kill crows 10-15 yds in a tree from a clunker GM&amaze my friends -until one saw the case.lott case is about =3" 410 slell.let us know.BEST,kim

Don,
A few years ago I was thinking of necking up the .460 Weatherby case to .550 and making a smoothbore bolt action gun with a "28 gauge barrel", since rifles are not allowed here for hunting. In other words a 550 Magnum shotgun, that a gentleman in this forum makes (sorry, I can not recall his name). The gun could be made on a strong bolt action receiver with an equally strong smoothbore barrel and screw-in choke tubes. Rifled choke tubes could be used for shooting bullets and I estimated that the case could be made to use almost a 2 oz. lead shot charge. 28 gauge wads could easilly be found and if needed modified for specific purposes. Also, smaller caliber bullets could be used in a sabot for hunting smaller game. I think that it could be an interesting experiment for someone who wants a gun for hunting almost everything.
Lefteris.

Might be fun to play with. A fella might also load some 150 gr "collar button" bullets (originally made for "The Cartridge Which Shall Not Be Named") at airgun velocity, or a multi pellet buckshot round. Plenty of ways to while away the hours...

You could probably have a chamber "adapter" turned pretty easily.

The rim on the 458 is .532".
I think the rim on a 410 shell is .510" (anyone remember exactly?)

The shotshell would headspace off the adapter - which would headspacing off of the adapter's belt.

Come to think of it, you wouldn't have much "adaptor" rim for the extractor to grip. Maybe not such a good idea (unless you want to remove each spent shell with a stick.)

Could be made to work well in a big double though.

Hi Don,

I'm sure you know about the Speer shot capsules but I'll post them anyway because they look like a very easy way to accomplish what you seek.

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=682652

I used to make shot shells for my 44 mag revolver using gas checks ahead of the powder and again ahead of the BBs...crimp the gas check in and it's a good load for snakes. Use a small amount of blue dot as a charge in your lott.

It was however a short range thing as the rifling caused donut patterns.

I, too, would think the Speer capsule for the .45 LC would be the best starting point to adapt to the Lott. Probably a gas check underneath would compensate for the .451-.452 dia. of the capsule.

I made up some shotshells for my .405 single shot using Unique, a plastic .410 wad, 250gr of #8 shot and a .410 cardboard disc crimped over the shot. I miked some of the wads and the diameter was just under .400" so they'd probably not work in a .458 bore.

FWIW, the rifling does blow the pattern pretty quickly, at 10 yards there was a 36" pattern with a fringe about 10" wide then a space around the central pattern which was about 8" diameter (looked like a view of the planet Saturn from above).

Probably wouldn't work for game, but they'll ruin a snakes day.

hth

quote:

Originally posted by Hog Killer:
Here is one way that shot loads were made for rifles. This is a 45-70 with a hollow, hard wood sabot, filled with shot. It measures about .445" out side of the case. This is under boresize, probably to help it breakup when fired. I have not taken one of these rounds apart, as they are collectable, but it should have a base plug to help push the load down the barrel.



I would stay with smaller sizes of shot, to get the heaviest payload, still will not be much but should work for snakes and such, within 2-3 of yards.

Hog Killer

Hog Killerthat cartridge is called forageing rounds, and were issued to cavelry troopers so they could use their trapdoor Springfield carbines to collect ribbits, grouse, amd quail, for suplimentry food supply in the brush country of the west! I have taken them apart, and the wooden cup is hollow almost to the nose, and the shot is about No8. The cup is .454 so as to ride down the bore on top of the lands. there is a felt wad in the case behind the shot cup to seal in the gases,in the bore, and the shot is held in the cup by a paper wad glued in behind the shot, to the wood. The pressure of the powder charge splits the wood which is fairly brittle.

These could easily be made by anyone with a drill press!

Try 15 grns 265, 24grm (7/8 oz) shot. Compress powder lightly using card wad, then seat felt wad, then card then shot. Seal with gass check or card. Good for bunnies to 15 yards, wo vets and other varmints.

Once, I loaded up a few .458 X 2" AMERICAN rounds using M/L sabots for a .45 cal. and using .357" 158 grain SP bullets. If I remember I used SR-4759 powder (Light Load), however the accuracy wasn't all that great. I never thought of trying shot wads & shot though as I felt the case was a little too short.

Don
It would be possible in several different ways.
First the powder, something like Unique would be a good place top start, say @ 10 grains.

Next the shot, I would use 7 1/2 or No 6 myself, or what ever size is avialable in Zim about that size.

Since yhou are in Zim you may have to improvise the following...

You need a wad of comekind over the powder, here in the USA I would use a gas check, with maybe even a thin cork wad between it and the shot.

Then you can either fill the case with shot and crimp woth another gas check, or something you make to work in its place....

Or use something like a Speer shot capsule you find locally to increase the shot load.


I do know that 10 grains of Unique will drive a 400 grain lead bullet @ 1000 fps.

Any powdedr between the burning rate of Unique and 2400 should work, you will just have to play with the amount.

You might even try a .410 wad or something you make locally to keep the shot off the rifling thus lessioning the twist effect.

Also upping the shot size to say No3 or 4 Buck might make a good small game load for civit and jackel sized animals up close.Let us know how the experiment works.

I have killed a LOT of small game with shotshells in handguns.

With as many PH,s that use the 458/458 Lott there would probably even be quite a demand for them.

Thanks guys

Will try some loads with MP ( Unique) and S265 and let folks know