Now with the 458 Lott being commercial, cheap brass, cheap dies, factory ammo. Is there any reason anymore to go to the Watts? Is the difference just that of the 458win to the 458Lott? minor?

Anybody on here have the watts?

Red

.

That's 2.850" for the Watts, and 2.800" for the Lott. No other effective difference.

I would druther have the Watts chamber in a rifle marked as .485 Lott, for readily available brass reasons.

My reamer is signed "Lott", but chambers 2.85.
If I use Hornady basic belted brass #8798, it is no problem to have all cheap components for the nominal "Watts".

I think, most recent reamers are made for 2.85 cases.

My Lott is also chambered to accept 2.85" brass. That said, I can see no reason to get a rifle built chambered as a 450 Watts, though if you find a nice used one, I'd get it.

I'm trying to remember... doesn't the watts have a shoulder similar to the ackley? If so, you wouldn't have to go through the case mouth "belling" step when loading.

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I'm trying to remember... doesn't the watts have a shoulder similar to the ackley? If so, you wouldn't have to go through the case mouth "belling" step when loading.

Watts is a straight taper; at least the ones I've seen............
You are probably thinking of the .450 Ackley Magnum that was a straighter taper and had a little shoulder. I think my RCBS die set was a 2 die set for it??? Many years since I had one...

BigRx

quote:

Originally posted by BigRx:

quote:

Originally posted by new_guy:
I'm trying to remember... doesn't the watts have a shoulder similar to the ackley? If so, you wouldn't have to go through the case mouth "belling" step when loading.

Watts is a straight taper; at least the ones I've seen............
You are probably thinking of the .450 Ackley Magnum that was a straighter taper and had a little shoulder. I think my RCBS die set was a 2 die set for it??? Many years since I had one...

BigRx

you're right - the watts is straight walled also... which begs the questions - what's the difference between the two?

The only difference is that the .450 Watts is 0.050" longer than the .458 Lott.

With a Watts chamber you can let your .458 Lott brass grow 50/1000" longer.

You can fire Lott ammo in a Watts, but if tolerances are tight, it may be tough to close the bolt of a .458 Lott rifle on a .450 Watts cartridge, probably impossible, but if the rifle is sloppy or cut long, it will allow it, though the extra neck compression at the mouth will jack up pressures, maybe dangerous.

It is a good thing to have the Watts chamber in a .458 Lott rifle. It allows one to digest ammo that might be encountered, of any Watts or Lott or .458 Win Mag, in a pinch: no pinch in a pinch.

The Watts was invented ~1950 by a fellow in Alaska. He took the then reasonably available Norma belted basic case of 2.85" straight length and gave it a straight taper to hold a .458" bullet and fit in a magnum length action. He also made one 2.50" long for standard length actions. As we know, Winchester chose to chamber the 2.5" version calling it the 458 Win mag.

Then Jack Lott had a bad experience with a buffalo while shooting a 458 win mag, and he said iffn I only had a bit bigger case to launch that 500 gr bullet faster I'd be set. This was the early 70's, and the belted basic brass was basically a bugger to get ahold of, though 375 H&H brass was common enough.

Trouble is, once you've formed the basic case as a 375 H&H and trimmed to 2.85", and then you decide to neck it back up to a straight tapered case for a .458" bullet, the case shortens up to about 2.82" Mr. Lott figured if he simply took the 458 win mag chamber, and lengthed it to take a 2.80" case, he'd have the powder capacity he sought, be able to use available brass, and have an easy ream out of the 458 win mag chamber.

Tahts the short history on the two rounds. I would like to see a dimensioned drawing of the 450 Watts. There was a book published on Mr. Watts and I need to pick up a copy, though I dont' recall if there were any detailed dimensions on his 450 design.

I have a 450 Ackley (and a 458 win), and the feeding order is basically, you can shoot a 458 Win in a Lott chamber, you can shoot a Lott in a Watts chamber (and apparently vice versa, if these reamer dimensions I'm seeing are accurate) and you can shoot a Watts in an Ackley chamber. Of course, all the smaller cases will fit in any of the larger chambers in a pinch (that is; 458 Win in a Watts, for example). It was one of the reasons I went with the Ackley in the first place. - dan

Dan, how long is the 450 ackley? does it have a shoulder? parent brass?

My gunsmith is going to chamber my lott to the 2.85, that has been the paln all along. I was just curious about the watt and if anybody were bothering with it now.

I'm hoping that I win that buffalo hunt so that I can have a compelling reason to give the wife for me selling some things and using some savings to have it finished.

Red

An article from African Hunter magazine:

The .458 Watts / .458 Lott
http://www.african-hunter.com/458_watts___458_lott.htm

-Bob F.

Cal Pappas wrote the book on James Watts (no throat specs in the book IIRC).

Cal Pappas, same author, also wrote the African Hunter article on the Lott/Watts.

Cal says the throat on the .450 Watts is shorter/tighter than that of the .458 Lott. The .458 Lott has a .4600" freebore plus 2 degree leade, which makes for total throat length of about 0.7". Freebore diameter is .4585" (accurate ).

The .458 WinMag (2.5" case) standard throat is about 1.1" long, and all leade (a wide based .4690"!!! with a gradual leade angle of 0 degrees 29' 30" !!! 1.137" total funnel throat !!!), no freebore.

A .458 Lott reamer is set up to come out with throat very close to the end of the .458 WinMag funnel throat. The end of both leads finish up very close to the same point muzzleward, with some freebore added to the Lott.

A .450 Watts rechamber of a .458 WinMag or .458 Lott would of course therefore have no tight throat problems, unless the barrel got set back considerably in the process.

It is good to hear that many .458 Lott reamers are set up now for the Watts 2.85" case length and the ample Lott throat.

The throat specs on the .450 Watts would be interesting, if sumbuddy who know can leade us not into ignorance.

450 Ackley's original parent brass was the Norma unformed belted brass, I am unsure of the original length (I'm at work and can't look it up), but it is slightly longer then the Lott or Watts. It has a small shoulder, and drives the 500 gr bullet at 2400 fps. - dan

The Lott just about rules the roost today, and rightfully so, its pretty much no longer a wildcat and it can do anything any of the big 45s can do...

It is considerably more powerful than the 458 Win. Magnum...with a 500 gr. bullet at 2350 FPS it is at least 200 FPS faster and more likly 350 FPS faster...A 100 FPS isn't much in a 270 or 06, but its a bunch personified in a 45 cal. rifle with a 500 gr. bullet and on both ends....and thats not to say the .458 won't kill a buffalo for goodness sakes, so don't you Win fans get your shorts in a wad....