Which is the most popular or most commonally use .416 in Africa?

I have always thought the .416 Rigby is the "classic cartridge" in this caliber, but I have heard a few folks say thta in reality the .416 Rem is used more often simply because its favoured/more popular with visiting Americans?

Note, i am not asking wish is the "best" out of these two, but just which is the more commonally used..

Regards,

Pete

For what it may be worth, every PH I've talked to (and I've talked to quite a few lately) regard the 416 Remington as crap, both the round and the rifle. The pressures are too high in the cartridge, the Rem 700's extractor is fragile. When things get hot, as they often do under the African sun, the brass sticks in the chamber and the extractor breaks off in its pathetic attempt to yank it out. The reason the Rigby is so well loved over there is because its modest pressure doesn't cause problems, and it's normally chambered in a Mauser action which always works.

My understanding is that the 416 Rem does not produce any higher pressures than the 270, 30-06 type cartridges.

Also the 416 Rem is available in other types ie , Winchester model 70 (CRF), Sako 75 and possibly others. It seems that the 416 Rem may have earned a bad reputation early on in Africa as a result of early production hot loaded factory ammo. There are experienced guys on this forum who have used this cartridge extensively and had no extraction/pressure problems.

The Remington Model 700 is not seen as a good example of a DGR because of its poor extractor which apparently is even weaker with this particular cartridge.

My PH in Mozambique loves his .416 Rem, but it's built up on a M98 action. The Rigby was more wrote about than used back in the old days (I cite ALF's research on this matter as well as several modern writers on the subject) because it was expensive given the long action required. Today, I doubt that there is a paper-thickness of difference.

Pete,

It's impossible to say with a high degree of certainty, because no one collects and collates the gun permit information from the various countries.

I believe U.S. residents comprise the largest portion of safari clients; it would not unreasonable to infer that they would use .416 Remington because they (and the ammo) are more affordable and available. The availability of the CZ 550 .416 Rigby may change that, however.

Now, if you ask which .416 do 'repeat' hunters use, the gap would narrow, because now, nostalgia begins to become a factor with the 'safari veterans'.

George

I suspect that the 416 rigby is the most popular .416 in Africa. I attribute this to the availability of cheap cz550's in .416 rigby, the nicer but more expensive ruger in 416 rigby, and the older guns floating around. The 416 Rem was just a flash in the pan and even Remington has stopped promoting it.

Ever try to buy .416 Rigby ammo in Africa? The CZ .416 hasn't been out that long and the output hasn't been that great. Ruger has made more but they tend to sell in the U.S. (But then, EVERYTHING tends to sell in the U.S.) I suspect that PH's buy what they can get, even in comparatively gunsmith-rich South Africa. Nostalgia is a luxury for the well-off. Hmmmpf!

Pete,

Not sure I can answer your question, but I know two PH's in Zim who carry Rugers in .416 Rigby. Over the past ten years, I've seen one .416 Remington (Win Mod. 70) being used by a PH. I've heard all of the bad things about high pressures and sticky extraction too. As for ammo availability, I imagine .470 shells are hard to come by in most places too, but that doesn't stop the PH's from using them. They just "make a plan", whatever caliber they use.

All you guys bad-mouthing the .416 Rem. Mag.

A constant flood of "somebody" said the pressure is too high, yadda, yadda.

I have used the .416 Rem., in the hot Africa sun, and all the rumors are just that. When you want magazine capacity there is just no comparison between the Rigby and the Rem.

The Remington is what the Rigby should have been in the first place.

The 416 Rem is the little guys dream of Africa, We have guys hunting deer here with them, target shooting, and all in the hope of getting the bankroll someday for Africa.Ed.

Will Said: "The Remington is what the Rigby should have been in the first place."

I'd take that a step further. It's what the Rigby would have been in the first place, as, having had the powders of today, the .375 case would have sufficed for all sub .50 caliber BA offerings and stiffled larger caliber BA cartridge development to a great degree.