Karl posted this on the '500 AHR' thread and it caused me to wonder.

Quote:

---

I'd say the ultra large bores have a built in failsafe against long term damage called 'immediate damage'!
ie. your use of them is regulated to sensible frequency purely by the abuse.

---

How many of you big bore shooters, defining big bore as .458" bore or larger, actually get "beat-up", bruised, sore, punchy, etc from a shooting session with you rifle?

I admit to getting a shooters headache a couple of time, but both times (the ones I remember anyway) where with a 416 Rigby, which does not kick anything like any of the 50's I have owned/operated. Well the Rigby does kick harder than my McMillan 50 BMG did, but that wasn't a hunting rifle, at least not to me.

To start off this thread then, I cannot recall ever getting bruised, beat-up, sore, punchy, etc with any of my 50 caliber hunting rifles. I typically expend between 20 - 35 rounds of ammunition in a practice session with the big 50's, too.

However, I once owned a 458 Win mag M70 post-64 Supergrade that bruised me good after 20 rounds, my right middle finger was almost twice normal diameter, and a much darker shade than normal, as well. My shoulder was a tad sore,too.
That M70 Supergrade was the absolute worst fitting rifle I have ever owned, even worse fitting than my M1895 405 Winnie. Pull too short, grip curvature far far too tight, etc!!!

So, what say you all?

Scott

Hi Scott,
I've had the same sort of results as yourself with the shooters headache every now and again. Mostly from bench shooting with my 500 A-Square (10.5 lbs no brake) trying to set up the sights. I've shot a few rifles like the 458 you described with rock hard recoil pads and crappy stocks and they will lay a beating on you for sure. How about that synthetic stock that Ruger came out with. The one with the dished sides very small butt area and the rock pad. A hot loaded 338 in that set up was lousy to shoot. A big bore rifle can be made comfortable to shoot with just a few basics kept in mind. A straight in line stock, a decent weight for caliber (10.5 to 11 lbs for a rifle generating 75 to 90 ft.lbs. of recoil) and a good recoil pad such as the F990 Pachmayer to slow down the recoil velocity and spread it over a longer duration.
Take good care,
Dave

Well, sure....nothing better than rebuilding a military action in a high-powered cartridge, and then putting the action back in the military stock with the metal buttplate, with sharp edges and top and bottom, and shooting from prone from a low position. No running away from that...

Fit is everything. Pachmayr 990, sufficient LOP, stay away from the scope if you've got a receiver mounted scope, and don't shoot from a low, prone position. Standing benchrest makes a lot of sense, but I have never seen one outside of a photograph. As for getting knocked silly, the secret is recoil velocity. Just keep making the rifle lighter or more powerful, and you'll get there.

I am a wispy fellow of 6'2" and 185 lbs or so, and yup, I get sore with stocks that don't fit perfectly.

A couple of months ago, I chronographed some .458 loads for a mate guiding on buffalo in the Northern Territory. He reckoned they were too hot (loaded by a 'gunsmith' down south) so we tipped some powder out and headed off to the range with his 8-pound synthetic-stainless M-70. I fired 7 rounds from the bench, those 500-grainers were still doing 2050 fps from the 22-inch barrel, and they HURT! All holes were touching at 50 yds except one 1/2-inch high, so I held it together OK, but I was glad he didn't have enough rounds to 'waste' anymore at the range!

My 10.5 and 11 pound .577s are pussies compared with that .458!

I must admit to an occasional tenderness around the right pec the next day after a range session with big-bores, usually noticed in the shower while soaping up. All part of the fun I guess!

When I sighted in the .450 Rigby, I used a padded jacket, PAST pad and sandbags. Once it was sighted in, though, I shot only standing and rarely more than 5 rounds in a string. Personally, I can't see the point of doing more than that since only the first one counts on game, anyway. It's sort of like assigning my kids math problems. If they can score 100% on ten, why make them do 100? If one can shoot a good group offhand or over the sticks of five rounds, I say I'm done for the day. That way I'm pretty sure of avoiding flinching, bruising, cussing, etc. My personal take on this, you understand.

I cheat. I have shot 458Win and when changed to 458HE
wildcat;total 2600 rounds in over 30 years.All bench and
chrono testing for experimenting and load developement
was on a tall stand up bench with a heavy tripod
locked to barrel.Off hand shooting and hunting is a small percentage of the total.No headaches or bruises.Ed.

I've given myself a headache a couple of times at the bench, but this involved 40 round sessions.

Rifle is a Ruger #1 in 500 NE @ 10#, 13 oz. Pad is a F990. Loads were full power 570s. Sessions were setting up sights.

After sessions like these I'll have a little pectoral tenderness but no visible bruising. Headaches have dissipated after 30 minutes.

I can go out and bust varmints all day long firing 40-60 rounds from standing and kneeling positions with no ill effects.

This rifle is actually more comfortable now than when it was a factory 458 WinMag. The original recoil pad from Ruger is too hard and the LOP was 3/4" too short.

The more recoil involved, the better the rifle must fit the shooter.

One of my next projects is the construction of a standing bench. I'd really like to go after prairie dogs with this thing

I guess I am just a sissy.. but, then again,, I know I am recoil shy...

I have been punchy from my 500... when I finaly got it back up and running I thought, wow, I am just as tough as I was... and shot 20-25 the first day... and was DRUNK from it...

I've bunched my shirt up under the pad, and gotten a pretyt good abrassion from that...seems like once or twice a month I do that...

I have been brusied by guns... sure enough,,, anyone that says that haven't, well, my salutes to you, superman


IMHO, once one leaves the 30 calibers, your body must acclimate to that... Much like if one can bench 400 LBS, one should remember that there where barriers at about 275-300 that seemed like they would never break... and when they did, they seemed like small issues.

This is why 243/270 shooters get bruised badly from 338 winmags and 375s.... their shooting style, including hold, must change, or they will be injured.

Sorry, guys, I just aint macho enough to say i've never been bruised and battered by a big bore...

jeffe

Well thanks for the replies so far. I was beginning to think I was a freak or something.

Personally, I believe that stock fit it the single most important factor in whether or not your big bore shooting experience is a powerful shove or a heavy weight boxer's power punch.

Also, personally I feel that the synthetic stocks are a no-no on a big bore. The reason being that these stocks are far too compliant and flex considerably under big bore recoil. The results are a thrashing to one's cheek, which will leave you with a headache, at least it does for me. I have experienced this with calibers as light as 7mm Rem mag, which was a Savage 110, did not fit well and beat the crap out of me! The 50 Beowulf on an AR 15 is another stellar example of this phenomena. It is absolutely one of the most uncomfortable rifles I have ever shot! Believe me the beating is disportionately greater than the power of thar puny cartridge!

Jeffeosso,

I have been bruised by guns. The only 'big bore' that has done it though was the M70 post-64 supergrade. If you have 'Cartridges of the World', latest edition, there is a picture of one on the page dedicated to the 458 Winnie. They call it an African, but mine only said it was a Supergrade. It was accurate, but one paid a price to prove that to anyone else.

There is no doubt that the recoil of a 416 Rigby is much greater than a 300 Win mag. However, I have shot a 7mm Rem mag, which was far less comfortable to shoot than my 416 Rigby, or my 500 AHR, or any of the other 50 cals I have owned over the years. My reasoning for this was explained above.

Your analogy to weight lifting is interesting. Yes, there are levels that one must conquer. I plateaued for a while around 315lbs - 335lbs when I was 18. Improper training techniques got me over that hump and I eventually pressed 405lb for two reps with a probable single rep max around 435 lbs. In my opinion, dealing with recoil is a matter of personal desire. If you want to do it, you will 'steel yourself' to the recoil and work through any discomfort (pain) you may experience. In the end a tolerance is established and you no longer experience said discomfort, provided that the stock fits you properly! I never was able to shoot that M70 Supergrade, 458 Winnie comfortably, but I could shoot it well, it was simply a matter of discipline.

Scott

When I was hunting in Zim this year we went to the "range" so I could put a few rounds threw my Ruger #1 458 lott. We were going to walk around and see if i could pop a few baboons as I had already taken my DG with the 458 win mag. Well after 6 or 8 shots out of the ruger #1 my Ph liked the way the gun kicked the sh** out of me but I still had a nice group. (I found holding my guns loose keeps me from flinching) so he gave me his 450 ackley on a m70 action. His loads said 500gr at 2380fps. Now that gun was brutal to shoot! Some how I hit the bottom of a 12gauge shell at 70 yards(i think my eyes were closed) he kept feeding me the shells. By the end between the ackley the lott the win mag and a 375 i had shot between 35 to 40 shots. I couldnt pick my arm up high enough to hand the rifle up to the back of the truck. Ive never had the headache from shooting yet. but a sore shoulder and bruises many times.
Dean