Guys,

I've been looking longingly at double rifles since I was in college (lo those many years ago). They were more expensive than I could even aspire to at the time.

With the raising of a family and so on, I just put that interest on the back burner and kind of ignored them for the last 30 years.

Am getting interested again, but lack some sense of who the good makers are that provide field grade guns at a price mere mortals can afford.

I understand the need for low pressure, high volume cartridges in these rifles ... and the desirability of a rimmed case.

I gather from previous messages that folks are OK with Searcy, Krieghoff (if you can get by the cocking mechanism), and maybe Chapius in calibers like 9.3x74R, 500/417 NE, 470 NE and so on.

Might folks please comment on field grade guns from these makers and Merkel as well.

At the very low end, how about the Tikka/Valmet 412/512 O/U in 9.3x74 for a light gun?

thanks,

Mike .... I just picked up a "like new" Tikka 512S 9.3x74R from Thad Scott Guns that is made in Italy with Greman-made barrels for $1200. I'm very impressed with the quality that the gun displays (haven't shot it yet, but the barrels are adjustable, so I think that it'll shoot fine). It seems to possess the quality of workmanship of a more expensive gun. My guide in Africa last year used one, and ever since I shot his, I've wanted one (they're somewhat hard to find in 9.3x74R). My first impression is this is a good place to start if you're looking for an entry level double that us retirees can afford. As soon as we can get together, you can try mine. It'll be a good partner for my .470 Chapius.

mstarling
First you need to decide if you want a "medium" or a "large" bore double.
I have a 9.3x74R Chapuis that I really like and I can highly recommend it. It shoots a variety of loads very well.

For a "large" bore double you have two choices. One of the "new" made rifles such as a Chapuis, Krieghoff, Merkel, Searcy etc. Calibre choice is usually 500/416 or the 470 Nitro. Both excellent choices.

For similar money you can get an original British rifle. One of the 450/400's [3" or the 3 1/4"] are usually the most economical. I have a 450/400 3 1/4", and a 450 No2. I can very highly recommend the 400's as a very good choice. You never hear of any complaints of lack of power or penetration for any African game. I use 300gr bullets in mine for deer and pigs.
You can also find British doubles in larger calibres, but usually the price goes up.
The best advice I can give is to handle as many double rifles as you can, seek advice from the posters on AR, and based on the rifle you like and feel comfortable with take the plunge. You will not regreat it.
Search these forums as there is a lot of good info on doubles.
Take a trip to Champlin Arms in Enid OK and to Westley Richards. At those two places you will be able to handle several doubles.
It just depends on what you like.
I would recommend a British 450/400 [3" or 3 1/4"] as a best buy for a persons first double rifle. Champlins has a good looking 450/400 and check the classified forum, Mickey has a good looking 400 for sale as well.
You can never go wrong with a 450/400 Nitro.

www.champlinarms.com www.westleyrichards.com

Merkel makes a nice 9.3X74R. Mac on this forum had a very nice one and it shoots well. Points like a fine quality .410 double shotgun. A little searching on the internet should provide you with one between 5-6K.

Butch Searcy will make you a double for between 7-8K. Pick your caliber!

Failing that, find you an old british double in 450/400 3".

The 9.3 and the 450/400 will serve you well.

Suggest you subscribe to "The Gun List"...they have a section of double rifles for sale and you can frequently get a like-new used one from someone who either couldn't take the recoil or realized they were "Bwana" material. I've seen Searcy rifles for as low as $5K and once in awhile a Wm Douglas for around $7K....best caliber for resale seems to be the 470 Nitro.

Mike: Just a pitch for the Pedersoli Kodiaks here, and not necessarily even the .45-70 Colt double. I have played with the Kodiak muzzleloading doubles in .58 and .72, and the handling experience and the barrel convergence problems you can solve with these guns will get your feet wet in double rifle theory and experience for less than $800. If you have the scratch for a nice cartridge double, more power to you. But these muzzleloading Kodiaks are a darned hoot. And while not in the ballistic league of a .450 or such, getting a .730-caliber 840-grain Paradox conical going 1100 or 1200 with 130 grains of FFg is not entirely to be sneezed at. Might not be ideal for dangerous game, but for a moose or maybe even an eland, hmmm ....

Mike:

If you're not looking for a DGR, you might want to check out the EAA double in .45-70 that should be out soon. I inspected it at the SHOT Show and for around $600 (as I recall) it looked and handled decently, and if it shoots well and its regulation system works, it should be a useful gun for North American hunting and a good value.

If you are OK with an over under, then the TIKKA is a very dependable rifle. There are two things that reccomend it! #1 is the adjustability of the barrels, and #2 is it has the plus of being able to buy other barrel sets, without haveing to have them fitted to the action. The TIKKA 512, (actually a Finnish Lion, VALMET 412, made in italy)with a set of 9.3X74R double rifle barrels, a set of 12 ga shot barrels, and a set of 12 over 9.3X74R combination barrels, will set you back about $2000 US for a one gun for the world. I have one of the old Valmet 412 systems, and it is a very well made firearm.

However, if you are swayed most by a side by side, then I reccomend, you start with a S/S, because you will never be sattisfied with an O/U, and will be on the prod for a S/S till you get one. The 9.3X74R in a S/S will be the most useful double you can have if you are not thinking of hunting Africa. The 9.3 will handle anything on the North American continent, and will give you a lot of use. Additionally it will be far less expensive to feed, and work up loads for, makeing it a much easier rifle to shoot a lot. The 9.3X74R is the smallest legal chambering for dangerous game in most African countries, as most, here, have stated, it is light for buffalo, but legal in most places. It is one of the best cartridges, in a double rifle, for the states.

Any of the S/S doubles in this chambering are quite reasonable in price, for even NEW ones. Starting with the Cabela's (pedersoli) hammer double, at around $2000, to the Merkel at $4695 from Cape Outfitters, to the Chapuis at around $6000. They are all good buys,and I have owned all, and still own some of these, but my pick because of price/quality is the Merkel, but all the above can be found used for around 1/3 rd less than new price, if you look.

For a NEWBY to double rifles,I reccomend a NEW rifle, or nearly new one. I don't reccomend buying a used Britt rifle, unless he has the help of someone who absolutely knows what to look for, and is willing to help. The used Britt can be a deep BLACK HOLE for those who arent in the know, and recovering from a bad buy here can be very expensive!

Stop and think of what kind of money you are discussing here! Under $10K! Most folks who say they can't aford a double rifle, think nothing of spending $40,000 for a "hunk of tin"car, that is worth 1/3 rd less the minuite you drive it out of the dealership. Even the cheapest of NEW doubles, will maintain nearly all their value as long as they are cared for, and unlike cars will actually apprecieate in value, in some cases.

Once you learn a little, you can then venture into the very desirable Brittish rifles, of larger chamberings. You can either sell, you small rifle, and buy the Britt, or keep it to compliment the Britt! But, I can guarantee you will not loose the money you would on a four wheeled hunk of junk!

[ 05-23-2003, 21:47: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

If I were not interested in a DGR double, then an old black powder double would be just the ticket. They can be gotten for $3K and will work great on elk or pigs.

Mike,
You could subscribe to www.biggamerifleclub.com
These guys amongst other things are our double rifle gentleman crew.Some members are Wilkin from H&H and Mcdonald from woodleigh bullets(and bums like me too )
A lot of old english doubles floating around as well as recently made modern stuff for only a few grand-and your dollar kills ours.

Karl.

The answer is simple! Call Butch Searcy, send him money! In six to nine months you'll have a double that will work reliably shoot well and earn you major bragging points anywhere you go. By the Way, the 450/400 in 3 inch is a super shootable double.-Rob

HAS ANYONE seen what the pricing on the new Blaser dbl rifle is going to be? HTe one with the what look like the sleeved bbls.

curious

Lawcop, the Blazer is not all that expensive, in the field grade, but it is one of the ugliest rifles I've ever laid eyes on! It has plactic ribs,and the rear sight is mounted 12" down the barrels, at the mid way point,and the hood over the breech end above the chambers interferes with reloading. It has an AUTO SAFETY, that is undisconectable, not a good feature. I would say the rifle is as strong as the simi-conventional break top double can be,and will most likely serve well, but it simply doesn't float my boat. Plastic has absolutely no place on a double rifle!

[ 05-24-2003, 17:18: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

450-400's have gone sky high boys, I have been pricing them lately since the demise of Sweet Thang, apparantly I can get a new one from Butch for less than a used British gun and finding one in decent shape is near impossible...

Nitro,
Right you are. I hadn't used the link in ages.

Karl