I tried this in Favorite loads but got no replies so maybe this is the correct location? I am building a 458 American using a vz24 action and was wondering if anyone had experience with this minnie Big Bore. What did you find that worked? Thanks for the help.

Hi Frank,long time no see!I tried to send you an e-mail the other day but your mail server was down.Haven't seen you at Grundman's in quite awhile.

You should try to get ahold of a guy they call Dirty George.I can't remember his last name,but he's a big Italian guy who was a cop and ran Sports And Spirits in Willow Creek.He had a 458 American made up on a Remington 600 of all things.He should be able to give you some info on loads and such.Paul knows his last name,so next time your down there just ask him.

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Since a vz25 is standard length, why not chamber for a 458 win mag since it will fit?

The 458 x 2" american was designed for short actions (308 winchester length). Personally I think a winchester model 88 carbine in 458 american with a deeper clip for 4 rounds down would be a fine setup. The rem 600 sounds like a decent choice as well.

I've got a 458x2" but my loads are for a 14" contender barrel. The books by Ackley have some info i think. I use w846 surplus and 3031 powders. It's a neat little cartridge.I cut and welded 2 mauser actions to make 1 long and 1 short action and intended to barrel the long one to 458lott and the short to 458x2" but haven't got beyond the thinking yet.Mark

Frank, since the 458X2" has the same powder capacity as a 45-70, but is a far stonger case, and is chambered in a very strong action, start with the medium, or "MAX" loads for 45-70 listed under RUGER No1!

I had a 458x2" in a G33-40 Mauser action with a 20" heavy barrel, that I used for bear over bait,in the States, and as a go into the weeds rifle in Africa . I findthat, as with the full size 458 WinMag, this cartridge is far more effecient with 400 gr bullets. Even the 458 Win Mag doesn't have enough powder capacity to handle 500 gr bullets. The 458x2" is simply a belted rimless 45-70 that can be loaded to higher pressures without any worry. I can't remember the exact load I used in my rifle, but I do remember it used IMR3031, and worked like a charm. Ithink, however, today I would start with a load of 55grs of H4895 with a 400 gr Speer FP,or if a tougher bullet is wanted a Barnes origenal FN, or SP. This load will give you in the neighborhood of 2000 fps from a 20" barrel.

The H4895 load above is a medium load for a 45-70 in a Ruger No1, and should be a good starting load in your rifle. This 458x2" is a fun catridge! A good recoil pad is indicated, however!

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Great. I thought maybe I put the first post in the wrong spot. Hi Brian. It has been a long time. Thanks for getting me this site it has be fun reading about everything going on. I will try Paul. He said he had made a few of these up on various rifles and that I would have fun. I had thought about the 458 WM and figured if the 458x2 wasn't to my liking I could rechamber later. I am having recoil lugs installed and bedding done for the future.
What about lead gas-check bullets? Anyone have luck with these?

Frank.....let me ask a dumb question. Isn't the .458x2" basically the same as the new Marlin .450 Mag with a different width belt to prevent chambering problems?

I would take a closer look at the .450 and probably use some of their starting loads to work up..actually I would probably chamber in the .450 to start with and forget about the .458x2" all together.

Frank,

Why not just get it chambered to 458 WM and then just throttle it down some?That way you have cheap dies and no case prep.You can load it down to 45/70 ballistics for hunting around here,and then load it up for when you make it to Africa.

DB Bill's suggestion will not work if you wanted to rechamber to 458 WM later,as the belt is larger in diameter so it won't chamber in the various 7mm and 30 caliber belted magnums.It would be possible if you wanted to have the barrel set back just a tad when having it rechambered.If you liked the 450 Marlin as-is,then there is no reason why it wouldn't be a fantastic blacktail and black bear rifle.

Personaly,I could never see the point of a cartridge half way between the 45/70 and 458-when used in strong rifles like the Ruger #1 or Browning High Wall (both of which I have in 45/70-fantastic combo),the 45/70 nearly equals the 458 American/450 Marlin,and the 458 can be loaded down just slightly to the same levels.

I might deer hunt this coming season with my Browning 458 loaded with 500 grain Hornadys to 2100 FPS.Ought to make ole Elmer Keith grin,wherevers he's at.O'Connor will probibly roll over.

On the subject of cast bullets-they should work fine at 2000 FPS or slower.Send me an e-mail and I'll give you the contact info for a commercial caster I have found.He makes exellent bullets in all sorts of calibers for less than $10 per hundred.He has .458 bullets in everything from 305 to 580 grains.I just bought some 580 grain gas checked from his to try out of my 45/120 3 1/4 inch.They are beautiful bullets.
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[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 03-07-2002).]

Frank,
Check this out.It's done up on a small ring Mauser 98 and a half-way decent piece of wood,and for not much more than what it'd cost to make your own.

www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=2423997

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Brian,

That butt plate makes me go "OUCH!"

500grains,

Why in the HELL did they pick a 1/2 inch pad for that?Maybe that's why it's for sale?

Frank,if you are interested in this,I think you could talk the guy down on the price outside of the auction-he's had it running on there for several months now.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

Very good ideas, thank you. I have spent an intersting afternoon at the bench making brass that will fit. A lotta work. The 458WM does seem to be the way to go for easy loading. Paul has my rifle chambered already so I am going the try the American for a while. I'm not sure about the 450 Marlin because I haven't been researching it but I do have a 45-70 in an '86 and love to shoot it at the range with Black powder using Venturino's guidlines. People freak when it goes bang and I love to shoot it but the strip down and cleaning is a bit much to shoot it very often.
Brian I am going to E-mail you for the info on the cast bullets. Thanks

Frank,

Got your e-mail and answered it.Let me know what you get from Wayne.

Be sure to keep us all up to date on the American.The old '86 Winchester with BP sounds mighty fun!I've got a pile of 45/70s but don't shoot black out of them.Heck,I don't even shoot black from my 45/120.When Morry heard that he just about had a seizure!

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!