Did we see Craig Bodd's article in the latest Rifleshooter. I just got mine today.

States he starts having recoil tollerance with the big 7mills by memory.

Then states he preferres the Lott, which boots him a bit. Well OK he's probably standing to shoot the biggies.

But then goes on to state one can always shoot W.M's for practise, and emergencies.

Well I still say one should practise with what you intend to use, AND, if the .458 WM is OK to shoot in a Lott, well wouldn't it be OK to shoot in a WM ? I mean, if it's dodgie in one why brag about being able to be used in the other?

See, all new.

It doesn't matter what he says; do what works for you.

George

The way I see it is, if you want to shoot the 500gr bullet below 2100, go with the WM.If you want to shoot it above and up to 2250 then go with the Lott.They are two different cartridges.If you want to shoot the 500gr bullet above 2250 go with something else.A hundred fps is a big deal in this caliber.

JAL,

I figure: why mess with a 458WM if the same amount of $$$ in a CZ will buy you the Lott? You can always load down to WM velocity/power levels, and you retain the Lott's superior potential. You can shoot a 550gr bullet in the Lott at the same speed as the 500gr in the WM.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Two good posts. I may have to change my mind soon.

Nothing new here. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
JAL,

I figure: why mess with a 458WM if the same amount of $$$ in a CZ will buy you the Lott? You can always load down to WM velocity/power levels, and you retain the Lott's superior potential. You can shoot a 550gr bullet in the Lott at the same speed as the 500gr in the WM.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Why mess with either when you can have a .450 Dakota or a .450 Rigby. More velocity, less pressure!

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush: Why mess with either when you can have a .450 Dakota or a .450 Rigby. More velocity, less pressure!

Dave

and a lot less magazine capacity........

But there is a solution: .450 Ackley!

I am prejudiced, since I have owned all three; and currently have a CZ in 450 Dakota. CZ and Wisner both offer an extended floor plate to add one round. That said, Whitworth makes a valid point.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

First, it is easy to get the wm shooting 500 grainers to 2150fps and a bit beyond.

Second, either the wm or the Lott offers plenty of performance for anything.

So, the choice comes down to which rifle. If you have a good 458wm or find a good second hand 458wm, then you are set and all is well. If you have a good Lott or find a goos second hand Lott, then all is well. If you are going to go out and build a rifle, why not go ahead and build a Lott?

JPK

Craig is a tool...

quote:

Originally posted by doccash:
Nothing new here. IMO

Have patience we're just getting warmed up.

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
If you are going to go out and build a rifle, why not go ahead and build a Lott?

JPK

I was hoping you'd tell us. Surely there are some disadvantages?

How about if you have a favourite short action already. What if you wanted a lighter rifle than a Lott would warrent. What if you had a WM, and wanted a pair with out the trouble of mixed ammo. What if you never wanted more recoil. What if your PH was using a Lott and you wanted to show him up. What if you worked for Winchester?? etc etc

.....Or , if you want alot of punch in a small light weight rifle a win mag is a reasonable 7.5-8.25 lb rifle ...If you want more rifle weight then a CZ makes a great Lott that holds lots of bullets...mine will pack 6 all up ....but my favorite 458 holds 4 all up and is the one I carry much more often ......If you use a magnum length model 70 or 700 or a 375 length Mauser the Lott can be pretty compact also but quite lively when you pull the trigger ......

quote:

Originally posted by Whitworth:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Bush: Why mess with either when you can have a .450 Dakota or a .450 Rigby. More velocity, less pressure!

Dave

and a lot less magazine capacity........

But there is a solution: .450 Ackley!

True enough but IMHO the much lower pressure of the Dakota or Rigby more than offsets any advantage of the higher magazine capacity of the Lott.

Dave , Perhaps if a full 2400 fps with the 500 g bullet is required then the large cases are needed .....No doubt trying to get even 2350 fps is a stretch for the H&H case , ,. But if 2250 fps is an adequate velocity for the shooter and game then the extra mag capacity is nice ...

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:
If you are going to go out and build a rifle, why not go ahead and build a Lott?

JPK

I was hoping you'd tell us. Surely there are some disadvantages?

How about if you have a favourite short action already. What if you wanted a lighter rifle than a Lott would warrent. What if you had a WM, and wanted a pair with out the trouble of mixed ammo. What if you never wanted more recoil. What if your PH was using a Lott and you wanted to show him up. What if you worked for Winchester?? etc etc

My 375H&H weighs 8 1/2lbs and it was made with no weight savings in mind, the same rifle in the Lott would weigh the same. 8 1/2lbs is plenty light for a Lott!

(However, additional weight savings could be had by using an island rear rather than a 1/4 rib, a lighter contour barrel, hollowing the butt some switching to a composite stock, lightening the magazine by drilling it, trimming the heavy bottom metal...)

If you have a pair and one is 458wm and the other is a Lott, you have no trouble with mixed ammo if your ammo is 458wm.

If you thought that you would never want more recoil, then with the Lott you can stick to the 458wm level loads.

If your PH is using a Lott and you show up with your Lott, but not your ammo, which got lost or stolen enroute, your still in business, but not if you showed up with a 458wm. Of course if your PH is shooting a 458wm and you show up with a Lott, your still in business too.

If you worked for Winchester, you would have the Custom Shop build you a Lott on the M 70 action!

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
Dave , Perhaps if a full 2400 fps with the 500 g bullet is required then the large cases are needed .....No doubt trying to get even 2350 fps is a stretch for the H&H case , ,. But if 2250 fps is an adequate velocity for the shooter and game then the extra mag capacity is nice ...

Gum, I believe that you and Whitworth are correct. That extra magazine capacity is indeed great. However, if you put a drop box on a .450 Dakota or Rigby, you can get one in the chamber and three in the magazine. In my mind, that's plenty.

I talked with "Wade" at Dakota the other day and he told me that they load 107 grains of H4350 in their ammo with a 500 grain Woodleigh or Swift. Tha load should produce 2400-2450 fps. According to Wade, that load would be good no matter how hot it is. I am in the process of putting together a .450 Dakota and I plan to back it off a few grains so it is running about 2300 fps. That's good enough to kill anything on earth and at the same time, a very modest pressure load. Don't get me wrong. I think the Lott is a great cartridge and probably THE most practical of all the large bores. However, most guys who have them don't load them to 2150 fps, they try and soup them up to 2250-2300 fps. Im my mind, that is a mistake. As you indicated, the 500 grain bullet at 2150 fps has always been the standard in Africa for most of the large bore cartridges and pushing a cartridge of such limited case capacity like the Lott much above 2150 fps serves no purpose other than to needlessly jack up the pressure. Remember, the whole purpose of the Lott was to get just enough more powder in the case to get it to the promised 2150 fps.

Dave

Once upon a time, long ago, the Lott may have been an advantage to getting a 500gr .458" bullet to 2150fps. But that time has past.

It is no challenge to get a 500gr bullet to 2150fps in a 458wm, an to do s0 well below max pressure specs, further, to do so with temperature insensative powders.

This unreasonable, to me, fear of or avoidance of pressure makes no sense. So long as the cartridge, as loaded, stays below max at the performance level desired, I just don't see the reason for concern. Staying away from max or near max "book" loads is one way to play it safe, another is to ship a couple of loaded rounds for pressure testing, which is easy and cheap to do.

Talking pressure concerns, my .458wm rifle is a double rifle, where pressure would be a concern, if pressure at 2150fps were an issue. But it isn't and a few round pressure tested ensure that. In a bolt rifle, there is just no issue with reasonble loads at all, and with decent barrel length, 2150fps is acheivable with midlin' loads. So far as temp insensative powders, the Hornaday manual list several for the 458wm. But AA 2230 has proven, by chrongraph, to be temp insensative and the Hogdon Supreme line was developed for the Aussie defense forces for that purpose.

The current advantage of the Lott is to either push 500gr bullets faster, up to an easy 2200-2250 or so, or better yet, to push 550gr bullets to 2100fps-2150fps.

And also to successfully shoot 458wm loads if required. And I've needed to borrow 458wm loads in the field on an extended elephant hunt, so it isn't a moot or remote issue.

In my opinion, not yet wholy tested though in accordance with others' with more experience opinions, past Lott performace, there is not a sufficient additional advantage with .458" bullets to justify the additional recoil, trouble, expense, lack of flexibility (in so far as ammo availability in the field or at the destination)... and the hunter looking for additional performance ought to move up in bore size and bullet weight.

JPK

quote:

Originally posted by JPK:

8 1/2lbs is plenty light for a Lott!

My point is/was, miles too light.

quote:

If you have a pair and one is 458wm and the other is a Lott, you have no trouble with mixed ammo if your ammo is 458wm.

Most people would have some Lott ammo around for the Lott for various reasons, but if you only had WM, no problems.

quote:

If you thought that you would never want more recoil, then with the Lott you can stick to the 458wm level loads.

Yep, might as well stick with the WM all the way. If you loose your ammo like the Lott uses seem determined to do, there should be plenty more WM stuff around that the Lott people were going to use only they didn't need it after all.

quote:

If your PH is using a Lott and you show up with your Lott, but not your ammo, which got lost or stolen enroute, your still in business, but not if you showed up with a 458wm. Of course if your PH is shooting a 458wm and you show up with a Lott, your still in business too.

If the PH wouldn't lend us any we'll all be stuffed.

quote:

If you worked for Winchester, you would have the Custom Shop build you a Lott on the M 70 action!

Wrong again, they would give me a big discount if I went with their own cal.

I'm not going to have trouble with you am I ??