I have a MK V Custom Deluxe in .460wby, its got a leupold vx-3 1.5-5x (not sure on the max power) sitting on top of it. It has leupold rings and bases that the shop ordered for me when i got the rifle. The scope was mounted and bore sighted by the store.

The bases are the dual dovetail style. The rear scope ring has the tails literally sheered off. It sits down in the mount but it moves freely, and after removing it, its clearly gone.

I was told to go with leupold quick release style setup as they are the strongest available (factory made and reasonably priced). Gun shop says to go with a set of Warn mounts they have in stock.

I need advice.

Nickblaze

The ring failure you describe sounds unusual, if by wings you mean the dovetails on the rear underside ring, I am wondering if that particular ring had been made too hard thus causing brittleness which caused failure under the recoil impulse. Usually the double dovetail rings hold up well to recoil.

Either of the Warne or Talley rings and bases would be a good way forward, however if it were my own rifle and to prevent future problem I would opt for Talley rings and bases and have a good gunsmith fit larger diameter screws to the bases.

The .460 is always going to be a bruiser on scope mounts but the Talleys properly fitted should be fully up to the job

I have had good results on Dual Dovetails and also the Leupold detachables...the ones with the post on the bottom ring with the groove that the lever cams froward and down.

Just to be sure, are the mounts you are using the Dual Dovetails or qre they the mounts with the windage screws on the rear base.

Assuming Dula Dovetails one problem that you can have is the scope not being fully tight in the front ring but being fully tight on the rear rings. This has the effect of having all the force being placed on the rear ring.

Mike

they have a windage screw on the base. am i thinking about the wrong kind of base or are there options with the dovetails?

Sounds like your gunshop might have screwed up.
I would suspect the screws that attach the bases to the rifle would shear off before the dual dovetails would let go.

My experience with Leupold QR mounts on my 375H&H is not good. Even the Leupold rep suggested I try other brands. I would imagine they would perform less well with larger bores. I have NECG installing EAW mounts now. Hopefully they will be as good as they look.

Something is clearly not right. The front ring and base should be taking the brunt of the recoil force. The rear ring and base shouldn't be taking near the beating of the front ring unless there was an error in mounting the scope.

The Dual Dovetails are the same set of rings both front and rear.

With the windage adjustment mounts the rear base won't do much and if the scope slips it cause the bottom rear ring to tear through the windage screws.

If your rifle needs windage adjustment mounts (which Wbys do not usually require and that goes double for the 460s) there is a fix.

Briefly, you have the scope set up so that when the adjustments are centred you bore sight (for windage) using the windage adjustments. The scope is removed and a gun smith drills and tabs the bottom of the rear ring and puts a screws through the ring and into the base. He also sweats it as well.

However, on big kickers like the big Wbys I would recommend one of the detachable type mounts such as the Leupold cross slot mounts. With a spare set of rings you can have a second scope setup which is handy for scope failure but it also good if you have any accuracy problems and suspect a scope problem......just a matter of seconds to drop another scope on.

Mike

Yep,
Mike has got it figured out. They are not dual dovetail, and the front ring was loose enough to let the rear Redfield/JR-style base take all the stress, boogering loose.

Use some silicone adhesive (automotive, clear or black) inside the degreased rings (with degreased scope tube too) and tighten them properly.

The dual dovetail would be better than the JR/windage adjustable.

The Leupold QRW (QD as Mike is saying, but not the "QR," it is the "QRW" you want) with the square recoil stop on the bottom of each ring (fits in the square cross slot of the steel Weaver-style base) would be as good as it gets. Talley if you are worried about what the Jones's might think.

8x40 the base screws AND epoxy the bases to the receiver too, and no worries, mate.

If the dovetail on the rear scope ring has shorn off, you (obviously) need a new set of rings. I've seen some very VERY shoddy mounting jobs by gun store clerks, and your rings and bases may not have been degreased and tightened down properly.
Mounting the rings properly yourself is not complicated.

George
P.S. I have used the Leupold QRs on my .375H&H for close to ten years with no problems whatsoever.

John,

I have good results with Leupolds that have the peg on the bottom ring. I forget which mount has which name.

I always put the rings on first and cam them forward and down with the lever. I then either lap or bed the rings using Devcon Titanium.

I mainly use them because:

1)They have worked and and have been on accurate big kickers. Lots of shots have been fired because I use a bag of lead shot behind the gun.

2) I don't like the look of the Leupold cross slot mounts with the rings split 2/3rds and 1/3rd

3) Badger, Nightforce and Near are very good but (at least to me) they look like shit unless they are on heavy barrel gun with big NightForce scope mounted.

Mike

Fellas,

He has just posted that he is using the Leupolds with windage adjustment.

Mike

QD mount? You need a 'Suhl' claw mount screwed in AND soldered in on that thing!

thanks guys, i copied and pasted a large portion of this conversation into an email to the gun shop gun.

i don't have any problem mounting my own scopes, i didn't have an arbor big enough to bore sight that .460 so i had the guy at the shop take care of it for me. he's never sold anything that big before, so i don't really blame him. stuff happens.

You can bore sight by looking through the barrel at a target 25 to 50 yards away. No arbor is needed. Those boresighters are mostly useful on levers, pumps and auto loaders that you can't look through.

I much prefer brick wall at 100m, or so with look through barrel bore sighting.

I'd suggest you put on a set of Warne Premeir rings. I've seen leupold rings shear before. Use the Warne bases also. Make sure the rings are lapped and then put a dab of the lapping grit on the scope rings, seat the scope and tighten the screws evenly. Also use red locktight on the screws. Both Bases and rings. You'll never again have a problem.-Rob

RIP and Rob,

Would you be able to do 8 X 40 screws on the rear of Wby Mark V as the rear receiver ring is quite thin, given that it is Rem 700 made thiner because of the big bolt diameter.

Personally, I have not had a problem with 6 X 48 and the bases and screws epoxied.

Mike

Q.R. rings on hard kicking rifle's?
One of the best and cheapest ofcourse are the Weavers you know the one's with the 2 screws one one side.
If you don't like the looks of them than the next best imo are the Burris tacticals.

Most of my rifles are hard kickers with big scopes on them.
For years my 340 had a 1.5 x 6 Swarovski in EAW mounts on it,the front ring is about 1 " wide and it worked well untill I put a big S&B on it.
I like the idea of interchanging scope's so I went to the Weaver style base's and Leupold QRW rings on a number of guns.
Well the Leupold don't work for me ,the recoil lug in the bott. of the ring are held in place by 2 screw'sand are a loose fit in the groove's.
They failed on my 416 338RUM 338/378 340 the insert tilts on the groove gets nicked and sometimes sheered off.
Leupold send me new inserts to no avail.
I took them all to work made new tight fitting inserts out of 4140 and put them on lighter guns.
On hard kickers I like wide rings(Weaver,Burris )for a better grip my S&B scope had dents in the tube from narrow rings.
This and some rosin?? powder in the rings will keep them in place and I did not find a need to go to a #8 screw in the base but it won't hurt ether
Martin

Mike,
I had no problems with 8x40's on several Mark V's. It is reassuring. 6x48's and epoxy should be fine too for something as gentle as a .460 Wby.

The QR's have metal rubbing metal when that little lever cams over on the scalloped stud on the bottom of the ring, and if they are QD'ed much they will surely loosen eventually. I just don't trust them as much as the QRW, Warne or Talley.

quote:

I like the idea of interchanging scope's so I went to the Weaver style base's and Leupold QRW rings on a number of guns.
Well the Leupold don't work for me ,the recoil lug in the bott. of the ring are held in place by 2 screw'sand are a loose fit in the groove's.
They failed on my 416 338RUM 338/378 340 the insert tilts on the groove gets nicked and sometimes sheered off.
Leupold send me new inserts to no avail.
I took them all to work made new tight fitting inserts out of 4140 and put them on lighter guns.

I find that surprising. I have had the QRWs on a couple rifles and they have worked great. I got some of the original QRWs with the round "recoil lug" that peened the forward part of the groove on the bases, but I replaced them with the square recoil lug and they have been great ever since. I used them on both my 416 Taylor and a 375 H&H.

There is a little slop, but when I put them back on I push the lug up to the front of the groove and tighten.

Don_G uses them too. He put about 1200 rounds through his 416 Rem Mag this last spring while preparing for Africa and never had any problem. He told me he was really impressed with the return to zero when he swapped scopes, etc.

Cheers,
Canuck

8X40 is not a problem and actually a good decision!. just make sure your gunsmith /machinist knows how to really center a hole. Not as easy as it sounds. Use the Warne Premier bases and rings. Don't forget to lap the scope in and add a little scope grinding compoun under the rings. That scope will never move after that. The Leupold 1.5X5's hold up quite well to the .460wby. However the 2.5X fixed are the most reliable scopes ever built for a DGR.-Rob

Ron,

I have never had any problems with the 6 X 48s and epoxy or sweated. But I had often wondered if the thin rear Mark V receiver ring would take the bigger screws. I guess I was visualising a 1/2" screw going in for 1/8th of a turn

The only trouble I have had with the QRs (post on bottom of ring) is the levers become very tight....in fact far totight to undo by hand.

But I continue to use them and the Hornady agent rates them as better. Could be heat,amount of shooting, we don't have Bush as leader ....who knows.

And of course we have very few 500 A2 shooters. We have 585 Nyati shooters.....but they are happy if they can chamber the round and it all goes bang. Accuracy is a bit furter down the track

Mike

Rob,

I bed the scope in Devcon Titanium amd then afrter it sets I heat cire it in boiling water.

Sets about as hard as the aluminiumm in a cheap saucepan.

In most cases I then glue the scope to the rings with Araldite. Might be a different brand name in the US of A but it is an epoxy glue....does not set as hard as Devcon etc....sets like a harder version of nylon.

I guess if I had a 600 OK or a 505 Gibbs (with good brass) then I would have to apply some of your tricks. However, I don't need to shoot that stuff to know that it puts the 460 into the pussy category.

Mike

nickblaze

Hoped this thread helped and also gave you some other insights.

Mike

While a .460 mwby is hardly a hard kicker, it can break scopes.If any of you never ever want a scope to move in your rings, here is the ultimate fix.. Get some thin CA (cyanoacrylate) super glue and lightly coat your scope where the rings will seat. Then sprinkle some 400 grit carborundum ( brownells) over it then wait a minute or two till it dries. Pop it into your scope rings. It will never move. The rings can break but that
scope won't move! I also like to add a little accraglas under the scope bases to keep the bases fromm shearing. 8X40 screws dipped in red locktight help significantly also.-Rob

Canuck; what can I say?
Maybe I am nitt picky or maybe I had a bad run but every time I removed a scope the recoil inserts where tilted and had cut marks on them.
I however can't say I ever noticed a chance in POI but still the rings moved and this even after tightening the levers with a small cresent wrench.

One thing you have to keep in mind I am talking big scope's like Burris black diamont.S&B 2 x 10 x 56 ,two Leupold tactical 6.5 x 25 scope's now I don't know the weight of all of them but none of them is under 15" in lenght.
This combined with the above rifles gave me these results and the chance in rings fixed the problem

Regards Martin

Rob
I thought Warne stopped making the Premier series?

Rings

quote:

Maybe I am nitt picky or maybe I had a bad run but every time I removed a scope the recoil inserts where tilted and had cut marks on them.
I however can't say I ever noticed a chance in POI but still the rings moved and this even after tightening the levers with a small cresent wrench.

It is interesting. It could be the scope size...I was using a Leupy fixed 3x on my .375 and a Leupy 1-4x on my .416T. They are pretty short and light scopes. Don_G was using the Leupy VX111 1.75 to 6x on his 416 Rem Mag.

I doubt it is due to your pickiness. I am pretty picky and I KNOW you can't be pickier on this kind of thing than Don!

Cheers,
Canuck