Hi all, what is the legalities of owning a rifle with a bore larger than .5"? I looked on the BATF page and they had an exception to the destructive device for a rifle deemed sutible for sporting purposes. Do they make this determination on every individual rifle made that is over 50cal? Or do they make the determination on a given cartrige and then you can do what ever you want?
Enlighten me please.
lar.

There seems to be a standard exemption for the standard nitro express calibers and variants thereof. Of course, the BATF realizes that double rifles and big bulky bolt rifles are not likely to be used for robbing banks.

Lar,
please do a search, in the forum, on destructive device. I posted a couple lengthy statemetns regarding this, with the correct length... only SOME nitro's are blanket protected..
jeffe

I've wanted a Howda for a long time now. I was thinking about building one. Starting with a 12ga double and sleaveing with 20ga rifled blanks. Then cutting to 10" and pistol gripping. My old Chemisty Professor is a custom stock maker, maybe I could enlist him on the pistol grip. I emailed the BATF on if this could be considered for sporting purposes or if I could do it as making a classIII with the $200 tax.

This is what I'd like to end up with. I saw a 12ga coach gun in the gunshop the other day with a cracked stock. Seems like a good place to start. I could always short chamber it so it couldn't accept standard shotgun shells, maybe this would make a difference. Is there a source for 20ga brass hulls? I have a pile of 50BMG cases. I could always cut some off short and neck down, then cast my own bullets.
Thoughts?
lar.

What's with the "sporting purposes" junk? This does not fall under Class 3, this is AOW or Any Other Weapon.

To make:
1. Get the Form 1, Application to Make.
2. Fill it out, get the sign off from your chief LEO.
3. Send that and $200 to BFAT.

OR
1. Find a Title 2 manufacturer in your state, have him make it and register. You now pay $5.

You live in Idaho? Stand by I will get you a Title 2.

I have emailed a Title 2 manufacturer and given him this website address. He may or may not get back to you. He is a good man and I believe he can help you out.

[ 02-07-2003, 22:12: Message edited by: Roger Rothschild ]

I don't think this would be classified as an AOW......

NFA Definitions from Bardwells NFA FAQ:

quote:

---

A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (which is defined as a
shoulder fired, smooth bore firearm) with a barrel of less than 18"
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.

A short barreled rifle is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder
fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16",
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
rifle falling into the same length parameters (like a pistol made
from a rifle). In measuring barrel length you do it from the
closed breech to the muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure
overall length do so along, "the distance between the extreme ends
of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of
the bore." 27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

A destructive device (DD) can be two basic categories of things.
It can be an explosive, incendiary or poison gas weapon, like a
bomb or grenade. It can also be a firearm with a bore over 1/2",
with exceptions for sporting shotguns, among other things (see
discussion below). I call the second category large bore
destructive devices. As a general rule only this second category
is commercially available.

Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip, (but see below) gadget
type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons with both
rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18", that must be
manually reloaded (see discussion below).

---

If you want a howdah w/o all the hassles, make it a front stuffer. That is the route I plan to take, I figure a 12 ga, even a frontstuffer, ought to be plenty fun

Gonhuntin,
Don't know who Brawell is but I do know who BFAT people are:

"(e) Any other weapon. -- The term "any other weapon" means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire".

Roger

Bardwell is an attorney who specializes in firearms law......

If you will read the definition you posted, you will see that Lars project doesn't fit the definition of an AOW.

1. It isn't a pistol because it started life as a long gun.

2. It doesn't have a combination of rifled and smooth barrels (think drilling).

Instead, it fits the definition of a short barreled shotgun because it is "any weapon made from a shotgun falling into the same length parameters" ("a barrel of less than 18"
or an overall length of less than 26").

Furthermore, it could easily be classified as a Destructive Device because it is "a firearm with a bore over 1/2 inch" and doesn't meet the "sporting shotgun" exemption. Even if the rifled barrels over 1/2" and cut down stock were allowed in the "sporting shotgun" definition, cutting the barrels to less than 18" would then place the resulting firearm, back into the short barreled shotgun classification.

Bottom line.......the project, if completed, will not be classified as an AOW and will require the $200 tax which is the only benefit of an AOW over any other NFA weapon.......all NFA weapons require the same LEO signature and federal paperwork.

[ 02-08-2003, 00:06: Message edited by: GonHuntin ]

looks like maybe I should writeup my proposal, include a copy of my modified pic and send it to the BATF to see if they would even consider it. Maybe I should include some references and pics of the original 577 Howda. It wouldn't be bad if I could do it and only pay the $200 tax.
lar.

Lars,

Rather than the possiblity of being screwed by the BFAT, contact a Title 2 and and have all your questions answered, both those reguarding the paperwork but also the the build itself. You find the FA clubs full of fun people.

The following company is a Title 2 manufacturer and will be able to take care of any question you have regarding forearms covered under the NFA Act.
It is your choice.
The Gun Runner
1016 Cedar Ave.,
Moscow, Idaho 83843

Telephone 1-208-882-6323 after 10AM Pacific time

Thanks, I'll give them a call.
lar.