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Originally posted by JAL:

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Originally posted by MacD37:
before his nearves caused him to cycle it again. The result was two rounds in the loading tray at the same time. This can't happen with a CRF because if the exact thing is done, the first round is ejected, before anuther can be picked up by the bolt!:

MacD37, I've read you on the African forum, so I know you are an experenced DG shooter, so I take note of what you are saying.

But. . . So far all the examples given that I can recall seem a bit stupid to me. You know,a bit like saying "if ya didn't jab the accelerator instead of the brake it wouldn't have happened.

So it seems to me that some people shouldn't be shooting anything PF or CRF , as they're likely to stuff up somewhere somehow.
Now, so far, I haven't had any trouble with PF's, the two CRF's I had were a pain in the butt and were sold off.

Seems simple to me, full back, full forward.
Maybe those big,long, sloppy mausers tend to bind up and ya all think, "heck if that hada been a PF it would have jammed.

JALyou are absolutely right! If the shooter does everything right there is no problem with what rifle he uses! I believe I said that many times, in my posts on this subject. The difference between the CRF, and PF is machanical, not training! You're right as well about your CRFs failing and you got rid of them. That was one option, but haveing them tunes would have made far more sense.

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When I shoot big game I seem to slam the bolt back HARD, and shove it forward HARD. (No I don't have those Remington bolt handles.)

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"Experenced Guide" doesn't do much for me either, as there are many documented cases of experenced people doing stupid things.

The two quotes above seems a little contradictive to me! On the one hand, you say "YOUR" experience has always been as the first quote, with no problem. Then the EXPERIENCE of the long time guide who had done his the same way without a problem, is somehow not valid. IMO, if he had been useing a CRF, instead of a PF the system would have avoided the jam, when "HE" made his mistake, and if it ever happens to you the same will be true. It only happened to him one time, and if it can happen to him, it can happen to you, or me. Neither his, or your's, of my experience will make a PF, as idiot proof as a CRF action.


If you do what you indicate in the quote above , and your rifle is in good working order then the need for CRF doesn't exist! Simply put, when a 500 lb wounded lion comes like a yellow streak out of the long grass, it thends to make folks make all sorts of mistakes, in thier HURRY to get off that second shot! This is a little difference between not letting a TROPHY carabou get away, and stopping a Lion at 15 yds. Both are stressful, but in intirely different ways, and the result of not getting it done is very different.

The one guide in Alaska thought as you do, he'd been useing a PF for years without a miss que, but the one time he did, cost him for that opinion. If you think this can't happen to you in a very tight space,with a potentually death dealing animal, you are sadly mistaken.

I personally watched a man, who had been hunting little Luisianna swamp deer (65 lbs) with a lever action 30-30 all his life, let stress make him into a real sap. The thing was he had never seen a Muledeer that would go about 230 lbs in his life, and he came out to hunt with me, in New Mexico. A big muley jumped from under his feet,(maybe 20 yds) and took off down slope, to get around the bend in the canyon. This guy got so ratteled that he worked that lever like a champ! Slam, slam, slam, slam,slam, slam, slam,and the deer never broke stride. The guy ask, did I hit him good? The guy couldn't believe it when I told him he never fired a shot at that deer! BS! was his reply, till I pointed to all seven rounds on the ground about us, still loaded. He was in so much of a hurry to get off the next shot that he never bothered to pull the trigger. How do you think this guy would have done with a PF with a glued on bolt handle, and a Cape Buffalo bringing a fight to him?

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So, I'm not saying your not right, I'm just wondering how many cartridges YOU have ejected by accident??

I have been lucky in that respect, an a big reason might be that I tend to go into the weeds with a double rifle, rather than a bolt rifle of any sort. However, if pressed into a fight with a bolt rifle, I assure you it will be a CRF actioned bolt rifle! What I'm saying is, the stressful mistakes, made by some, can be made by anyone, you or me included.

As I always say the choice is yours, use what you want, All I'm saying here is the reason why the CRF is better than a PF for a close quarters fight! I beleive that was what the origenal poster wanted to know, IF any one had ever been saved, or mauled because of useing one or the other type of action.

The reasons my seem stupid to you here on the net, but it will seem quite a bit stupider if you get into some trouble that the CRF would make a difference, and the "OH SHIT" happens!

Advice on the net is free, and it is up to the reader to use, or loose it.

MacD37 Thanks for your patience, my two CRF s were just ex Mil clunkers, too big for their calibers, and I wasn't used to the system.

All my argueing was to draw out all opinions and to make sure I new of all the ins and outs. Same with Doubles V. Bolts, etc.
I appreciate your opinions and experence.

Well I don't like to stir the pot on these endless rehasing never getting a conclusion threads.

But I can tell you one thing for sure. Along with the PF I recomend it to be chambered in .45-70 for real world DG stopping capability.