I understand that a .500 Jeffery is not "cool" unless it's done on a Mauser 98 is this correct ??

But really is it being crammed in there and made to fit rather than really being ideal.

My question is if the cz 550 had as much sex appeal as the M98 when associated with the .500 Jeffery wouldn't it make more sense to build a .500 Jeffery on a cz550/602 rather than a standard mauser 98.

Put your bias aside and give me an answer as if both actions had equal appeal in this chambering.

For me it would seem a much more practical way to go for a Jeff, has anyone done it on a 602 or 550 ??

PC,
I think a jeffe-ry is cool, even in a ruger!!!

Rob says there are magizine troubles, in a 602/550, and with his experience, i believe him.

Lord knows it's tough enough to get feeding in an enfield....

but, i would NOT do a jeffe again, i believe, as it would be a 500 a2, for cheap and available brass..... yeah, i know you have bertram on the same island, (sorry mate)....

but, woodlieghs are cheap to you as hornadys are to us, so you'ld have plenty of fodder...

btw, i hear you fella's don't eat roo, that right?

The silly yuppies here are eating roo-burgers, from a ranch in colorado!!!! wow, ground rat.... next thing you know, someone will open a muskhog bbq place in detroit...

eating vermin.. belck

jeffe

What troubles Jeffo do you run into with the 602/550 in regards to the mag ?? I thought "more room = better"

Is the .505 Gibbs more suited to the 602/550 action than the .500 jeff.

I know .500 A2 is the "practical" way to go but it does not have the ring to it that Gibbs or Jeffery has. I need at some point to fill the gap between my .458 Lott & .585 Nyati and I just want to gather as much data as I can between now and decision time.

Jeffo, inregards to roo meat I like to take a 3/4 grown doe and take the back straps out and hang them for a day or two. Then I cut them into small medallians and fry them in butter, garlic, black pepper & onions. Serve on some homemade ptatoe chips fried in the pan. Tastes Great, admittadly it has been a long while since I have cooked that recipie but when I was a kid I used to quite often do it. Kanagroo tail soup is also a great recipie as is ox tail soup.

Paul,
my 500 bertram brass sucks,,, but it does ahve a longer neck than the hornenber....

you certainly could get away with it, but I think you'ld be darn lucky to get 3 in the gun, without more mods... remember, the 500jeffe has a rigby boltface, and that SEVERLY rebatted...

gibbs is HUGE and would be even more fun....

in any event, if you want that power level, you nearly have it in your lott... and if you rechambered that for 450 rigby (again, 416 rigby brass, bertram) you would have better SD and velocity....

I won't do another jeffe... but I might do a a2 later.

jeffe

Practical 500 Jeffrey, that's a good one. I don't see why you have to build one on a mauser 98, unless you have to spend $5k to make a "proper" one. Mine is built on a P-14 enfield, because it was a reasonable sized action to use. If I had to do it again, I'd go the 500 A2 route as well. On the other hand, if I built another 50 cal rifle, it would also be a 500 Jeffrey, as I have a tidy sum tied up in brass and dies. That and Lother Walter has pre-chambered 500 Jeffrey barrels.

The 500 jeff is a problem that was solved by the 500 A2. No offense to the traditionalists, but the 500 A2 is a better cartridge from every angle:

1. No rebated rim so no feeding trouble.
2. Quality Norma brass available at reasonable prices.
3. Standardized chamber reamers.
4. Can be shot at high pressures if desired.

I suppose at the end of the day the 500 A2 is technical adavancement as far as a .500 calibre hunting rifle goes and the biggest thing is easier to get to feed I suppose.

I prefer the name .510 wells than .500 A2 are the the same round or are there differences ??

I have been doing quite a bit of reloading of .500 Jeffery ammo for Duane Wiebe, who built himself a beautiful one on a 1909 Argintine action. I also had to listen to him curse, whine, and mumble to himself until he could get the thing to work properly. The fun only started there, as trying to sort out the "standard" .500 Jeffery is a hairball. 12-degree verses 20-degree shoulder, correct case length, decent brass, . . . .

Listen to what everyone else is telling you, and go with the .500 A2/.510 Wells, as putting together a gun and ammo for the Jeffery is a lot like beating your head against a brick wall; It feels so good when you quit.

All that said, once you do have it together, it does have class, and is a hoot to shoot.

Dave

FWIW- I've spent one heck of alot of time getting a 500 Jeffery to feed out of a CZ550. It will work, but just barely and you need to make a special magazine that controls the position of each round if you are like me and require a magazine that holds three rounds down. The 505 Gibbs is actually easier to do, but has it's own set of problems. The right answer is that this is definately one cartridge that NEEDs A SINGLE STACK MAG! There was a reason Schuler invented one for this case!Same thing for a M98. Go with the 500A2 it avoids all the hassles, costs and pain.-Rob

I had this conversation with the smith that is building one for me; on an Husqvarna FN ma�ser action. We decided on this because in the gunsmith�s opinion it would be a challenge and sort of an achievment for him to build a 500 Jeffery and to get it feeding all right. I respect this.

Another thing was the joke we have about other actions than Mausers; hunters that use other stuff will eventually have a mauser in their thoughts, probably the split second before the buffalo or the elephant gets him: "maybe I should have taken the mauser after all..."

I want the Jeffery for traditional reasons..

Boha

I am with KMuleinAK. My barrel is engraved

".510/460 Weatherby Improved Jenkins And Berry"

and I paid by the letter to have it all spelled out by an engraver.

For short I call it the ".510 JAB" which is a 500 A2 copy with a special throat on the Dave Manson reamer.

Are there differences at all between the .510 wells and A2 ??

PC,

I think the 2 cartridges are slightly different, but referring to Cartridges of the World should set it straight. If I recall, the 500 A2 is a little more improved than the 510 Wells, but I might be wrong on that. Ballistically they are the same, but dimensionally I think there are some small differences.

There have been a relatively small number of 510 wells made, and I suspect a much larger number of 500 A2's. The 500 A2 is a SAAMI standard cartrdige with standard reamers available and published loading data. If you ever wanted to sell the rifle, it may be easier to do with a 500 A2.

You could use a 500 A2 reamer and then stamp whatever you want on the barrel.

/

My good friend and PH, Pierre Van Tonder has a Mauser 500 Jefferys and I took him 60 Horneber cases from Huntingtons...His gun was made in RSA and feeds slicker n snot...He loads it down to 2200 FPS with solids only...

Like most big bores the actions are long enough but the boxes need to be wider to stack properly to enduce good feeding...His gun holds 3 down and one up as I recall him saying.

I suspect one needs to rebuild the box on a CZ if he intends to use the 416 as a basis and also the 416 is a longer cartridge than the 500 Jeffersy...I suspect it would be easier to build a 500 J. of a 375 CZ....Just a thought.

My envious comment: Beautiful, Alf.

I�m still debating my gunsmith about how to do the magazine; he�s partial to the Sch�ler sollution, being of course a scholar of the similar Moisin Nagant, as all smiths in Finland need to be, while I want a staggered magazine.

Boha

Boha,
If he can get 3 down, let him do it either way he likes. I've got nearly 4 down, and it was a LONG way to get there... I did the work myself, so it wasn to $$bad... but if someone was starting with a cz, it would be $$$$$$$$$$$$$, as you couldn't do teh cut's i did.

jeffe

The CZ action itself isn't wide enough to hold a mag box with the proper dimensions for a 500 Jeffery. It is however possible to jury rig one that will work more or less reliably by welding in three metal plates/spacers into a CZ mag that will stagger the second round in the magazine about .250 foreward of the first and third round. In this configuration, the rounds are positioned geometrically such that they won't porpoise downward resulting in a bolt override. The rims are also positioned properly for the bolt to pick up the extractor groove. This isn't a great solution but works reasonably well. I'm currently working on a Schuler style single stack mod for the CZ and think I can make that work much better. -rob

From what I have found in my research the CZ550 action is as wide as the Ruger M77 Magnum, M98 Mauser, the Brevex magnum Mauser. So can any of these actions really be suitable for such a behemoth? Does anyone know what the correct magazine widths are supposed to be?

I found this on an AR search dealing with the Brevex magnum action
==================================================
From 'Bolt Action Rifles' by Frank de Haas for the M400 Brevex Magnum Mauser

Weight - 53 oz
Length - 9.25"
Receiver-ring Dia - 1.5"
Bolt Dia - .700"
Bolt Travel - 4.975"
Striker Travel - .550"
Magazine Length - 3.925"
Magazine-well Width - .665"
Bolt-face Recess(for .416 Rigby)Dia - .590", depth - .060"
Guard-screw spacing - 8.25"
Barrel Shank & Thread Dia - 29 X 2mm(1.141" X approx 12.7 V threads per inch)
==================================================

Not much different from my CZ550 Safari.

Receiver ring diameter ~ 1.47"
Bolt diameter ~ .7"
Magazine length ~ 3.9"
Magazine width ~ .7"

[ 10-09-2003, 03:06: Message edited by: Judy ]

jeffeosso - share the magazine dimensions with the rest of us then.

[ 10-09-2003, 05:14: Message edited by: Judy ]

I have a close friend in RSA that had to have a 500 Jeff. He spent a ton of money to get what he wanted, which was much much more than the cost of my BRNO 602 500 A2. Mine feeds and shoots like a dream!!

Mike

jeffeosso - that is because you REALLY don't know!

Judy/ToddE-The receiver of the CZ550 is internally relieved to hold the simple sheet metal magazine box as you well know.. If you measure the width of three 500 gr Jeffery rounds held together by rubber bands ( which is approximately the minimum dimensions needed for the magazine box plus approx.040), you'll find that a .030 sheet metal magazine box will not fit back into the action. You could weld it in place, but then you'd have to grind out all the inner reliefs up to the rails. Not a very classy solution to the problem and no guarantees it will work either.
The M98 mag box is a totally different design and can be made to work as can the Brevex. Probably the best magnum mausers for the 500 Jeffery are the Vektor or Granite mountain actions which can be fitted with Mag boxes that are big enough. Almost every accomplished gunsmith I've ever talked to who has actually made a 500 Jeffery has run into big time feeding problems.-Rob

/

Alf,
Thanks for the info. Judy has a wierd number for the CZ mag box width.

CZ 550 .416 Rigby box, roughly:

Depth at front ~ 1.28"
Depth at rear ~ 1.55"
Width at front ~ 0.840"
Width at rear ~ 1.057"
Length ~ 3.855"

Could you or urdubob measure your 404 Jeffery box dimensions for those who want to know? Please.

Alf!

What are the feeding rails/ramps (or what ever you call them) dimensions on your .500 rifles?
Your info is of great help for us enthusiast up here in the cold north, where Jefferies don�t appear in every barn.

Boha

[ 10-09-2003, 13:42: Message edited by: boha ]

Alf

Thank you to share with us the dim. of the magazines , I estimate that the wide of the magazine it's important but not as important as the lips and rail feeds , then it's the real trouble , you can made a not so wide mag. to fit CZ , Mauser , bottom action and still it will hold three rounds , another different matter it's to feed it , as it's rebated you need to rework the lips of the magazine a lot to have the base of the cartidges in contact with bolt face and not to have a bolt over the rim jam , but IMHO this is something better to do with a dremel and test it hundred times until you have a lips that hold the cartidges and permit the right feeding , what scared me it's to remove more lips than necessary and ended with a ruined action .
Jeffoso , really I can not understand why you don't what to share the mag dim. with the rest of us , always I ask and advice from the Professionals in Gunsmithinh as Jim Wisner , Systeme 98 or Belk , get the right answer the good advice ( as sure you get from the same persons )
Daniel

Daniel,
I'll be more than happy to share with the people that will use it... but I was answering the troll.

Rob posted exactly how to determine it, which I also learned, from Jim Wisner. You merely rubber band 3 rounds together, measure the widest point and at the shoulder, and then depth. You then have to add .02 or .03, to the width.

the lips are critical as well, but the mag must work, or it just wont matter

jeffe

/

ALF, I must say after reading several of you postings and looking at the pics, you have some amazing rifles.

Ray if you see this again ,why does he download the solids?
What is the normal operating pressure for the 500?

And has any one build a 500 like Mr.Wolfe builds?

A word of caution! Do not take a Dremel tool anywhere near action rails. Use swiss needle files and check your work carefully using a set of Dummy cartridges that have a spent primer, a full powder charge and the bullet you intend to use. I have found interestingly that often when I finish a feeding job that my rails wind up looking like the ones ALF posted. i.e they resemble a bottleshape overall. The key thing to watch for is the way the first and second cartridges move in relation to the rails and to each other. This takes literally hundreds of feeding/filing operations. It's basically intuitively obvious and as you watch a cartridge move under the rails and cam into the chamber, you can tell exactly where to file to obtain as straight a movement as possible. You quickly see what works and what doesn't without removing so much metal that you ruin an actuion forever. While I don't claim to be an expert at this, I've probably done 30 DGR actions at this point from the 416Rigby to the 600 OK exactly this way and I do demand and will only be satisfied with perfect feeding-Rob

/

Dave,
Pierre downloads the solids to 2200 FPS because he believes that is more than enough with the 525 or 600 gr. bullets and that has been well established over the years....It also tames the recoil considerably and makes the second shot faster....also he will use it only to stop charges and that means brain shots for the most part..The extra 150 FPS doesn't mean much anyway...Brass being hard to come by will last considerably longer...and even perhaps the hot climates that supposedly cause problems with hot handloads would be a safty factor to consider..I load my 416 pretty mild at 79 grs. of RL-15 with a 400 gr. bullet...My 404s run mild as heck with 93 grs. of IMR-4831 for 2400 FPS, max in my gun being 95 grs. and I have loaded up to 97 but that was too hot..for hunting IMO, its never necessary to run full bore, the game will never know.

Thanks Ray

I think we all need to go to ALF's house so we can drool on his rifles!!!

-Bob F.