I just had this cartridge recomended by J. Belk, for a North American thumper. I wanted something beltess and able to fit in a standard Mauser. It will fit these requirements, but how about some performance data?

Thanks

Mike

Soundman,

Welcome to AR! I emailed Jack and asked about this. His reply was that 2300 fps with the .416 cal 400 grainers was doable. Anything else will have to come from him--I'm just passing this on.

Good Hunting,

Thanks Andy

Mike

Sounds like a lot of effort to achieve the same ballistics as a 416 Taylor. You'd need some heavy duty gunsmithing (rails, mag box, bolt face, extractor). Similar but less work with the Taylor. Taylor brass is easier to find (any 2.5" belted mag) and although both are wildcats, the Taylor is at least 'semi-domesticated.'

Coolness factor of the 2.5" Rigby does count in it's favor though.

Todd

What about the .400 Brown Whelen?
Uses 35 Whelen cases, no belt, no feeding problems in the Mauser, and rifle will hold more ammo.
400gr Woodleigh sp 2100fps.+

335gr. Trophy Bonded 2200fps.+

300gr. Barnes spitzer 2500fps.+

22 inch bbl.

Here's my thoughts

Pros
From Jack Belk ************
No Belt ***
Positive Shoulder/Headspace***
Great performance ****
Way Cool--Pretty is as pretty does*****

Cons
Cost
Cost
Cost

Thanks for all the input!!!!

Mike

There is also the 416 Howell, which is the 404 shortened to 2.5". Case capacity is within a grain of the 416 rem mag, and action mods are minimal. I know John Ricks has built a few, but I haven't heard from any of the owners what the results have been.

The real bummer about these rounds is reloading dies $$$. The 416 Taylor is the winner with inexspensive dies and brass, chasing that extra 100 fps adds at least $100 for the dies.

I'd vote for a Taylor. The Taylor reamer is readily available and it takes std magnum headspace guages. 458 win mag brass is dirt cheap to make the taylor out of, and Rigby brass is much more expensive. reloading dies for the Taylor are easily obtained. Headspacing off a belt is every bit as good as off a shoulder. Finally,magazine capacity will be every bit as good or maybe better.
In addition, you have to realize that the resale value of any gun converted to a wildcat(particularily one that onely a few people are aware of) will be zilch.
The only reason to do this is the uniqueness factor.-Rob

I don't understand why you just don't go with a 416 Remington or 404 Jefferys, they both can be made on a standard M-98 action or a M-70 Win. you can then get factory ammo it you need to and they are both more gun than any of the above wildcats...you can load them down and get a lot less pressure...

Taylor Dies are $50 on www.midwayusa.com...

biggest/easist thumper in a std mauser

INSOHO the 376 steyr is the BEST for std length

jeffe

I have a 416/404 and the case is trimmed to 2.5" to insure that bullets will not be seated too far out. It will reach 2400fps with 400gr bullets easily. It will probably do better than that, but in this very light rifle, who needs the punishment?

If I had it to do over again, I had thought I'd do it in 404. However, after reading the thread on the oversized chamber in the 404 and all the problems associated with that, I am not all that sure now.

If Ray says you can build a 416 Rem on a std Mauser action, I'd believe it. However, I'd bet you that there is some expense involved in "opening" up the Mauser for the 416 Rem. Further, what is the long term outlook for brass for the 416 Rem?

I also have a 425Express which is the 423 version of the 416 Taylor. It will reach the same velocities the 416/404 will. I don't know which would have the lowest pressures. My 416/404 flattens some primers, but the case doesn't expand much and shows no other signs of pressure. Similarly, the 423Express will reach similar velocities without showing any signs of pressure.

If I wanted "cheap", I'd opt for the 416Taylor. If I wanted exotic, I'd use the 416/404. You may think me plebian, but for your money, you'd be better served to buy a M70 in 416Rem and have someone blueprint it and bed it for you. You'll have much less money in it, and get more of your investment out of it if you decide that you don't like it. Ku-dude

[ 01-31-2003, 06:28: Message edited by: Ku-dude ]