I have three 6 X 42 Leupolds that are 93/94 vintage. The 3 scopes were sent back to Leupold about 1995 following extensive use on 270 and 300 Win. They were then used, but not very much for another couple of years and mainly on 270 and 6mm/06. The scopes were then not used until recently, so about 10 years of no use. The scopes performed perfectly before being put aside.

Just recently two of the scopes have been used on a 378 but only with reduced loads. The loads have been 85 grains of Varget and 270 grainers and 85 to 91 grains of Varget with 225 grainers. 85 grains with 270 grainers does around 2650 and is 8 to 10 grains under maximum. So in a nutshell about equal to moderate 375 H&H loads but with lower pressure.

The first scope was fine until about 50 shots and then started to go off and by about 65-70 shots the grouping had opened to a spray of about 4 inchs.

The second scope was then tried and completely failed after 4 or 5 shots. At that point the rifle would no longer stay on the 12" X 12" paper. In fact you could bore sight the rifle after each shot and see all had been lost. Actually this scope is the first time I have seen a scope fail to the extent that you simply could not hit anything even at 100 yards.

I am going to try the third scope in the next few days and if that fails then I think it would point to age of scope being a problem and perhaps sitting in the safe for 10 years is a factor. None of the scopes have been exposed to a full power 378 load. The muzzle brake was not being used.

Any thoughts.

Mike

quote:

The first scope was fine until about 50 shots and then started to go off and by about 65-70 shots the grouping had opened to a spray of about 4 inchs.

Depending on the type of bullet used, copper fouling could also be the reason why your groups are opening up after 50 shots.
Clean in between and the scope may still be fine!

Were you drunk when you mounted those scopes, Mike?

George

Rifle was OK as checked with another scope.

When the scopes were retuned from Leupold back in about 1995 the limited use they had on 6mm/06 and 270 were bench style rifles with HV barrel contour and about 13 pound all up. So limited use on low recoil. Perhaps the "Leupold Fix" was not too good and was not exposed because of limited shooting on low recoil rifles and 10 years of "sitting" plus some 375 type recoil did the trick.

I wonder if sitting unused for 10 years is worse for the scope than having some use over time?

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
Were you drunk when you mounted those scopes, Mike?

George

No George....and that might be the problem

Consistency is the key to accuracy.

You must not vary either type nor dosage between groups, let alone range sessions.

George

I'd send all three back to Leupold for a 50,000 mile check-up. They will probably replace all of the erector system with the latest technology and probably for free to boot.

JMHO

Ray

They sure will. Leupold is awesome when it comes to customer service like this. Every old scope that I have sent in to them they have updated everything possible, and at no charge.

Steve

They are going back to Leupold. However, I am curious as whether it has been a case of the scopes siting unused for 10 years that has been a problem or that perhaps Leupolds last fix on the scopes was too good.

You sure its not the mounts? My 470Capstick was giving trouble until I noticed the 2.5x Leupold had slid back under recoil. The Capstick is currently wearing an older 4x Leupold and doing fine ... but the eye-piece is damn sharp
Cheers...
Con

The proper question was were you drunk when you were shooting the 4" groups Mikie? Did you remember to take the covers off the scope? -Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Con:
You sure its not the mounts? My 470Capstick was giving trouble until I noticed the 2.5x Leupold had slid back under recoil. The Capstick is currently wearing an older 4x Leupold and doing fine ... but the eye-piece is damn sharp
Cheers...
Con

Con,

The scope that went onto to test if it was rifle went into the same mounts.

Also, the scope where the groups opened to over a foot has lost all direction when it is adjusted.

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:

The proper question was were you drunk when you were shooting the 4" groups Mikie? No

Did you remember to take the covers off the scope? -Rob I don't use scope covers so that was not the problem.

I have answered your questions in a proper manner as I assume they were genuine questions/suggestions on your part.

Mike

I was only trying to be helpful Mikey and help you in your time of need! As an Australian these questions must be asked as you may be a victim of unfortunate genetic defects beyond your direct control. One final question, Did you remember that the cross hairs must be focused on the target? if not, please repeat your shooting experience using this paradigm. Pse advise us of your results.-Rob

I have two Leupold M8 4X scopes of 1970's vintage; they have collectively been on at least eight different rifles and have had many thousands of rounds shot under them. One had to be repaired due to damage from an accident in the 70's; the other has had no problems of any kind. My Unertl Hawk from the 50's is one of the most precise scopes I have ever used. I believe age is one of the most unlikely causes of scope problems.

I was only trying to be helpful Mikey and help you in your time of need! Does my response to your post suggest otherwise?

As an Australian these questions must be asked as you may be a victim of unfortunate genetic defects beyond your direct control. What are they likely to be? What are the genetic defects that we can control?

One final question, Did you remember that the cross hairs must be focused on the target? Obvioulsy "yes" because the shots were recorded on the target, except for some of the shots using the second scope.

At this stage I am inclined to think the problem is made up of the following:

1) The 6 X 42s in question were from a bad batch. Also, if memory is serving me these scopes were of a vintage that was not long after the 6 X 42 was introduced....and allow extra time for scopes to come into Australia. None of the three scopes had been previously used on heavy recoil guns. Both the 270 and 300 Winchester they had been used on were heavy guns yet they failed and were returned to Leupold.

2) The "Leupold fix" might not have been that good. Could the "Leupold fix" have been different 12 years ago and the limited shooting on light recoil guns after their return not exposed a "poor fix"

3) Sitting unused for 10 years.

If scope number 3 fails on the next one or two range visits then it is "3 out of 3"

Mike

Remington720,

What made me think of age of scope and sitting unused for 10 years was a pair of 460 Wbys.

About 1973 a mate of mine and myself had a pair of 460s brought in from Wby and Wby had mounted their 2.75X Imperial scope.....the Wby scopes that had the elevation and windage turrets on top of the scope.

I shot my 460 and all was good. For various reasons my mate did not shoot his 460 Wby and it was stored until I bought it off him in the early 1990s, maybe 1991 or so. The scope was a complete failure and within the first few shots.

As a side note, I believe that second 460 will be in the next Barnes Manual. I sold the rifle to an Australian gun writer who was a big advocate for Barnes Xs and he moved to to America several years ago and that 460 was one of the rifles he took. He posts on 24HourCampFire.

Mike

Mike,
Who is the Aussie gunscribe, his handle on 24HourCampFire?

Mitch used a fixed-power 6X Leupold on the .577 Trex. It took a licking and kept on ticking.
His scope mounts were "fixed-power" too. Soldered to the rifle.
Was there a bad batch with the initial production of those 6X Leupolds?

Australian genetics? Being mostly Irish, I resemble that remark!

RIP,
Dont know if its considered bad etiquette to name another person when they hide their name behind a pseudonym??? But that bloke is sadly missed as atleast he wrote about the big bangers and was published. Nowadays ... the writers are just about all recoil shy Cheers...
Con

Ron,

Yes, I know Mitch used 6X Leupold and dual dove tails as I spoke to him on the phone not long after AR started.

But it could be a bad batch. I think it was the early 80s and we had a bad batch of the 12X Leupolds. The Leupold agent simply gave you a new scope on the spot.

Thus I am thinking bad batch, bad Leupold fix and never really tested after the "fix" and then sits for 10 years.

After I try the third scope I will send them back to Leupold and when they come back I will give them to someone else (I no longer own anything under 375 bore) and if they go OK then try them try them again on 378 with reduced loads.

Mike

Ron,

He is AussieGunWriter

Thread that has posting relating to 460 in Barnes manual. Link opens both pages. Scroll down to the first Mike378 post.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php...t/all/gonew/1#UNREAD

Mike,
12X Leupold? Is that a combination of two 6X scopes for dual mounting on a Kodiak double rifle?

About time Barnes got a 4th Edition manual out to correct previous errors and include the TSX's, MRX's, etc. Barnes has been adding lots of new bullets lately.
I'll look for the 460 Wby article,

Ron,

The way the 12Xs shot it might as well have been a double rifle

Overexpression of alcoholdehyrogenase, coupled with moderate to severe psoriasis and acromegaly come to mind for starters.-Rob

Rob,
Are you saying that Mike handles his liquor well, has bad skin, and is a blockhead? How do you know all this? Just guessing?

Free Skate time! Irish and Cherokee have at it!

RIP-Mikey?-Just guessing too-Rob