quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Ok, looked at the mag box on the Whitworth.
I have about 3.410" to work with.

What is your trim length at a COL of 3.45?
What kind of powder compression are you getting with that load?

Can you either measure one of those TSX 350gr bullets and tell me what the base of bullet to bottom of first groove measurement is, or send me one in the mail?


I wonder what the measurements are on the lighter tipped bullet.

I'd be happy to max out the magazine box space with cartridge length if that gets me ideal powder load density and overall length with a cartridge that's accurate in my rifle and swift enough out of the muzzle to do good work outside 300yds.



Cheers
Tinker

OK, MY specs: Trim length = 2.5"

: Bullet length = 1.23"

: crimped to BOTTOM of 3rd groove = 3.45" (.28" into case and .95" exposed).

: 80 grains gives 97% density.

NOW, for your rifle: Trim length = 2.495"

: Bullet length = 1.23"

: CRIMP to BOTTOM of 2nd band (OR TOP of 3rd groove) = COL of 3.395"

: Load density = 100%

Don't start with 80 grains!!! Work up to what YOU feel is safe and comfortable. A friend on here gets 2650 to 2700 fps using H4198 by crimping into the second groove in his 22" M70. FWIW, remember I'm loading to Lott specs, or thereabouts, and my barrel is 25".

Hope this helps.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob

Thanks Bob-


That should make a good start, and it looks like I'll be able to make something of the experiment.

My rifle has a 24" barrel, and it's an accurate rifle with pretty much everything I've run in it (strangely enough, except for the woodleigh bullets...)

These were a bam-rack-bam after I finished up the crossbolts/bedding/sights when I first got it.
100yds and iron sights.
Haven't bothered putting a scope on it yet.




It'll be nice if anyone has a box of those bullets here in town, otherwise it's time to generate an order some time soon.



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by buckeyeshooter:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
How about the Hornady 325gr. FTX?

George

they are very soft even at 45/70 or 450 marlin speeds-- think varmit bullet in a 458

I agree bullets are made for specific impact velocities too fast and they break up.

IMO

T

Bob-

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:

OK, MY specs: Trim length = 2.5"...
NOW, for your rifle: Trim length = 2.495"

: Bullet length = 1.23"

: CRIMP to BOTTOM of 2nd band (OR TOP of 3rd groove) = COL of 3.395"

: Load density = 100%

I looked at my .458 brass today, my trim length has been 2.485, the longest consistent length I've been able to manage with new Winchester brass - to get everything to the same length from the start.
It's been working for me with what I've been running, we'll see about how it works out with the TSX



Cheers
Tinker

quote:

Originally posted by a.tinkerer:
Bob-


[QUOTE]Originally posted by .458 Only:

OK, MY specs: Trim length = 2.5"...
NOW, for your rifle: Trim length = 2.495"

: Bullet length = 1.23"

: CRIMP to BOTTOM of 2nd band (OR TOP of 3rd groove) = COL of 3.395"

: Load density = 100%

I looked at my .458 brass today, my trim length has been 2.485, the longest consistent length I've been able to manage with new Winchester brass - to get everything to the same length from the start.
It's been working for me with what I've been running, we'll see about how it works out with the TSX



Cheers
Tinker[/QUOTE)

Tinker;

Nothing wrong with your trim length... in fact that should make it possible to crimp in the bottom groove of the 350 TSX without concerns.

I suggested 2.495" as that is the "book" suggested trim length. I leave mine at 2.5" as I have more than ample room for it.

Best,

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Yes that trim length has been working nicely for the past four or five years, with everything I've put through it.

We'll see about when I find a box of these bullets!



Cheers
Tinker

Finally got a couple boxes of the 350gr TSX bullets for the .458

I'll look in the powder locker tonight, possibly end up running some loads through the chronograph this weekend.

I'll write back to this thread when I have news!



Cheers
Tinker

I vote for the 350 or 400 grain North Fork SP.

If you use the 400 grain you can just keep it as your std 458 load and use it for everything other than elephant.

If you use the 350 grain it is more specialized.

Expect 95% weight retention and 82 caliber with the 400 grain at 2400 fps or greater.

It held up to point blank and 2750 fps with my 450 dakota on 1600 pound cape buffalo. 450 grain NF at 2550 fps and 400 grain at 2750 fps from point blank buff.



No other 458 bullet in the world can do this!

The Barnes will blow its front end off at that velocity and you are better off with frontal area.

Andy

Wow ! a thread on a good topic . I run the 300 gr Barnes X and TSX @ 2700 fps from my Win mag. The 350 gr @ 2550 . I use 4198 for the 300s and 4198 or 2230 for the 350 . For some reason I don,t want to underdtand Barnes dropped the 400 gr X bullet . I had alot of fun trying to figure out which of the 3 I liked best . I have recovered 400 s that expanded to .9" and weighed about 398 gr . not from game tho . I have had less blood shock from X bullets than any lead core bullets . But you don,t want to hit good meat with a FAST 458 bullet of any style . At around 2000 fps mz. vel. the 500 gr. isn,t too hard on meat unless you hit a bone . I,ve killed a bunch of deer with the 458.

In no way am I saying the North Fork isn,t every bit as good as the mono metal bullets . but I have never shot one so I will easily trust Andy,s results . I would like to wack some bears with the NF bullets .

The NF bullets look good, the barnes have a better BC

gumboot-

What's your overall length with the TSX bullets -- are you loading to max length for the mag box?

My interest with this little exercise is to extend the range of the rifle for ungulates.
We'll see how this all ends up over the chronograph and on target paper first...

I also wonder what scope I can run on this thing, that won't quickly get consumed by the recoil.



Cheers
Tinker

I think my loads with the 300 s are around 3.30~3.35 . I,ve had and hunted with a Sako , my 1 st 458 , a couple Witworths . my current Ruger custom M77 mkII SS an Interarms Mk X Alaskan and a CZ550 Lott ....
I like a bit of wiggle room in the mag box . I don,t know exactly how accurate the Sako was . but I did take the top of a bucks head off at 158 paces with a hand load using the 350 Hornady RNSP W/ close to a max charge of 3031 . I head shot a doe with one of th Witworths with I think a 500 gr Hornady RNSP but it may have been a 510 gr Win factory load . I had ahard time finding the bullet hole on that deer . my baby finger would just fit in the enttance and exit . 110 paces across a muskeg , kneeling with the express sights . My current 458 has killed a bunch of deer for me . The biggest bodied buck I,ve ever killed @ somewhere around 100 yrds . shot with the 400 gr X bullet w/ 80 gr 2230 pushing it . I get along real well with the 458 Win mag. I shot more than 2000 rounds thru this 1 rifle . most all were max loads . Ihad 2.5 x Leupold on the Sako. A 1~4 x Leupold on the Spruce King . which finally wouldn,t hold zero Kabluey watched me miss a deer something terrible with that scope. he had to kill it with his 06 . Oh The Shame !!!!!!!! but it truly was the scope . Currently I have a 2.5 x Burris on that rifle . A 1 3/4 t 6 would be a hard scope to beat . The farthest I have ever shot a deer was with a fixed 3 x Leupold . on a Montana ss in 375 H& H w Fed. High Energy 300 gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws . In the 500 yard range . I have missed plenty of deer with the 458 . almost all to underestimating the range . like around 1 in 8 killed . A range finder is great .but knowing your rifle is far better . like shooting sticks . its just another thing to remember and pack around . The 300 s recoil exactly like a 375 Improved ( whichever one you like) but kill bears , well like a fast 458 .
I,ve never got a great group from the Spruce King . but everything I,ve killed with it didn,t know that .

Fiddling with components in the shack, I'm seeing a max COL at 3.390 with the 350tsx to get it to feed through the box.
Feeds nicely though!

At that COL the brass should have somewhere less than 2.485 to get a crimp in the bottom groove.
I'm guessing 2.480 and I'll likely try it tomorrow.
At this COL, 78gr of H4198 fits in there without much of a push, holds it's length without a crimp (for the past few hours), and we'll see how it looks through a chronograph as soon as I can make it happen some time tomorrow or early this week.



Cheers
Tinker

The 458 is a round for the Lee Factory Crimp Die . I use mine on about all my 458 reloads . Before the Lee die was available I had several bullets driven into the case and other problems related to crimping .

Now its not released in component form..... yet, but don't Hornady make a solid copper & tipped 458 bullet at 250g

Isn't it called a GSX or something like that, its loaded for either the 450 or the 45-70.

Somebody might want to shot off an email to Hornady and ask when they will sell it in component form.

Regards S&F

For light Deer loads; I've loaded up my .458 X 2" American using 42.0 grs/ IMR-4198/ 300 gr. Hornady Soft point flat nose. Produces great acccuracy with a MV = 2,000 FPS.

Touched the 78gr load off through my Whitworth this morning into the hill behind my shop.

Brisk!

It was a bit too windy to set up the sky screens, but it felt good, sounded good, brass looks great, etc.

Hopefully I'll get around to loading up a few and running them through the chronograph before the week is out.

If this works out, I'll have nicely extended the PBR of my sweet little .458!!



Cheers
Tinker

I checked the Hornady Web site

The bullet your after is the 250g MONO FLEX Gilding metal bullet currently loaded for the 45-70

Here's the link
http://www.hornady.com/store/MonoFlex-Bullets

Pretty sure its a solid copper & tipped 458 bullet at 250g, like a bArnes but has 6 petals not 4

Again we need to find out if Hornady will release this bullet to the market in component form. It is available 30cal

Being solid copper they will be longer to get the weight up probably as long at the normal 350g projectile

I think a 250g MONO flex in the 458 AccRel could get close to 3000 fps

Regards S&F

S&F-


Part of the picture is flat shooting and retained energy at relatively extended range. The 350 has good weight and a good BC, which keep it relatively flat with good energy out at 300 and on.

Can you post the length and BC if possible for that Hornady bullet?
Also, if it's a guilding metal bullet, it's not elemental copper and I don't know the relative density of guilding metal compared to copper.

I'll look into it, but if it's designed for the 45/70 it's not likely going to be as tough as the TSX



Cheers
Tinker

Ok, so got a handful of cartridges loaded this morning to run through the chronograph.
Ended up being another day where wind and light would "just say no!" to chronograph use.

I did however end up shooting a couple into the berm at 100 yds.
The effect on the earth was pretty shocking (no pun intended)...

At first I thought I must have mistaken a rabbit or rat mound for the point of impact, but no, that spot was the same as the surrounding earth before I hit it with the Whitworth.
Walked back to the shop and grabbed a crowbar to see what was left of the TSX bullet.









Pretty amazing upset to the ground.
That's actually an incline, I angled and screwed with the cameraphone to reduce sun flare (note partial finger in first photo)

The last photo doesn't really show how deep the hole is due to the relatively wide angle of the camera's lens.
Note how deep my boot and leg get into the hole as I dug for the bullet.

That's what a 350gr TSX does in front of 80gr of powder at 100 yards.
My oh my...



Cheers
Tinker

I know you said Win mag but I have a Lott and I am shooting the 350 TSX at close to 2900 fps. Close to 30-06 trajectory.

Pop-


What is your powder/brass/primer/load/OAL?
What rifle are you running that load in, how long is the barrel?



Cheers
Tinker