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If you are patient enough. You can have a gun made for you by a good smith for less money than a "new" Dakota. Better wood, Better barrel, and custom touches like specific stock dimensions. The single thing I never cared for in Dakotas (off the rack) was their 13.5" LOP which is 1/4" to 1/2" too short for me. To extend the LOP you have to insert a ugly black spacer. Just ruins the nice gun from a visual. They would have been better off making all their guns with a 14.25 LOP and allowing a charge to trim it to customer specs for the money they charge. EZ | |||
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DITTO Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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The mark up on their wood was so ridiculous when I was thinking about a Dakota I felt raped just checking them out. ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Good wood does cost ya. I'd say they are getting better about wood upgrades. My understanding from Dakota is XXX is a small amount if figure in butt stock. Exhibition is figure in butt stock and a little in forearm. Special select is the wow factor.....nicest out there, but you pay for it just like you do on a Cooper or any it her custom build. Sometimes up to$ 2000. This is my understanding from talking with them. | |||
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I'm well versed in what wood costs hence my original comment. I think those that aren't may not know any better and are being taken advantage of. The blank on the rifle below cost me $250 about five years ago. Dakota wants $700 to "upgrade" to XXX. That $700 is on top of the price of their standard wood. So it's probably safe to say they value their XXX blank at 1k. You can buy a real nice blank for 1k.  ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Jim and eezridr what time frame do you consider patient enough? This is not meant to slam custom gunsmiths | |||
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Interesting comments, when I bought my Dakota, after drooling over it for over four years and driving down from Vancouver, BC, to Alger, WA. to pester the great folks at Kesselring's Gun Shop about these great rifles, I was given it with superb quarter-sawn English, for 10% off the old retail price and no upcharge for the wood. Based on examining dozens of Dakotas and looking at photos of a couple of hundred others, this stock would rate "Exhibition-Special Selection", which it is as Don Kesselring selected and furnished all of the srock blanks for the rifles Dakota built for their store. I had an genuine Al Biesen P-64-.270 Fwt. in his prime and have examined customs from some of the major American makers of the 20thC. I will flatly state that the inletting on my Mod. 76 is flawless and better than a lot I have seen on rifles by some very big names. The term ...a good smith... is highly subjective and while Duane Weibe, Darcy Echols, Ralf Martini and some others always fit my concept of what that really means, their rifles, while superior to the Dakota, also cost a LOT more. Then, there are the scores of mediocre gun plumbers whose work is not as fine as on my Dakota and who can never equal the solid value it represents. Mine used to shoot factory 225 TBBCs into .6" at 100M consistently using the Leupy 1.5x6 LPS I had on it and it NEVER changed POI in the 16 years I used it with the original wood stock. Are Dakotas a sound rifle and good value....yup, IMO, they certainly are. | |||
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I think it depends on if you pay them up front or on the back side. At least one year and perhaps up to 2 years. I do buy all the components and deliver them to my favorite smith. Keeps him from having to front the money. I have dealt with the guy that builds my guns for 25 years and I usually do not pressure him to much. He charges me a little less than most as I supported him when he was almost beginning. I think if I told him there was a rush, he would comply. I have never been in that big of a rush. I like his work. He currently is working on a Ruger #1 and a nice sidelock SXS for me. I can buy a nice english walnut or turkish walnut blank for $1K that would make the best Dakota blank look mediocre; unless you get to their $10K guns. You just have to realize Dakota is in business to make money as we all are and have to mark up their investments accordingly. I would not mind starting a project with a Dakota action if I could source one reasonably. Nice actions! EZ | |||
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Yes, Dakota's LOP std is 13 5/8"...BUT at ZERO cost you can have any LOP. Each Dakota I've purchased, I've selected the LOP and the wood from several choices in each grade, plus other features. If you buy off the self, yes you get the standard "dealer program" gun, at below LP. Order through your dealer (not through the factory) and select what you want, wait 6-8 months (just like any other made to order rifle), and pay close to the dealer program level, if your dealer wants the business. Bob DRSS DSC SCI NRA & ISRA | |||
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Were going to start seeing everything going up with the upcoming inflation! I agree with ya on the wood and also with the fact that Dakotas are Up there in price. Still very nice rifles! I wish they were still at the price they were even 5 years ago but I guess that goes for everything. Wish my pay check went up with the ratios everything else does. Somehow I'm not even close! | |||
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Love the pictures guys, any African Dakotas out there? | |||
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People comparing CZ and Dakota, must be both blind and numb. There is NO comparing. Dakota is lightyears ahead. Some years ago when they were in financial trouble, i spend a couple of weeks at the factory, evaluating if we wanted to invest in the company. What i found, was a crew of extremly talented and skilled craftsmen, who needed some inspiration to realise what options they actually had.During my wisit they showed great will to improve ther setup, actually i belive that they started to work smarter after the discussions we had. Manny of the people her at AR, who tryes to convince everybody that a rebyild mauser or CZ or Montana, can reach the same level sas a dakota, they actually tryes to fool both themselve and their customers, just to make a few $. As a competitor to Dakota, i find their rifles outstanding and of werry high quality. | |||
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I didn't realize that Dakota made a plasma gun. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Dakota 76 retails for 5 grand. You will be hard pressed to get a custom from an upper level smith for that price. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Michael, It's comments like that which makes people evaluate you. Why post at all. I find it very professional that he is a competitor to Dakota and gives them the recognition they deserve. We call that class. You need to get some. I rather enjoyed his post. | |||
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Mike has more than enough class. Maybe you need some perspective. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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Peace, Gentlemen, we all have good points to contribute here and the Christmas season is not over until The Epiphany on the 6th instant, so.......  | |||
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Maybe I was a bit to judgmental. I get frustrated when people jump into a thread and give no value. I clearly did take it out of perspective. My apologies. | |||
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TSEMP On page one I posted pictures too. | |||
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Very nice 404! Do you use a scope on it? Need a picture of the whole rifle. Looks new without any dings! Wish I had a Dakota to post, soon I will! | |||
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The Dakota action alone can't even be put in the same league as Winchester. As good as the Winchester custom shop tried to be in their day, they couldn't come close. What really soured me on Winchester is owning one where the scope mount holes were not even drilled straight on the top of the receiver. The windage on the scope was maxed out and it was still shooting 4" off center. When I called them, they said, "oh yeah, we are aware of the problem on several of these that went out. You can use a scope mount with an adjustable windage to correct it". I was pleased before I got the gun that they offered left handed rifles, but after my experience with that, it gave them a whole new repuation in my mind. I currently have the 330 Dakota Safari that I ordered in 1996, and a Classic in 280 Ackley that was previously owned. That one somehow got a match grade Lilja barrel from the factory, in 280 Ackley chambering, and an excellent stick of English Walnut. If I take it to the range and can't shoot a one hole group cluster at 100 yards, I know I'm having a bad day. The price hikes every year have driven them up to the point that I won't be ordering a new one, but certainly keep an eye out for any used lefty's that come up. Cooper's are a fantastic rifle for the price, now that they are competing with the big game centerfire repeaters, and will even have magnum chamberings this year. | |||
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With the bad press Empire is getting I'd say Dakota is a better choice. | |||
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Thanks, Charles. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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I had a Dakota African in .416 Rigby. Bought it unfired used. Nice gun. While yes the wood prices are a bit high, overall they are a fine gun for the money. Great rifle. I traded that gun on a Holehan .416 Rigby which uses the Dakota African receiver. Frankly I never understood why anyone would wait for years to buy whatever that start up company ? Montana ? was with the "PH" bolt actions when you can get a Dakota action from Brownells. Made no sense to me. I still have the original Dakota wood stock (the guy had a second high $ Dakota wood stock made) and the synthetic stock as well. That guy must have been fd in the head- a second "beater" wood stock and a synthetic stock to boot. There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Choices sir choices. That is a good thing. Plus the MT actions were being offered for 350.00 dollars. The Dakota is what? 1800.00? Plus some people just don't like Dakota for whatever reason. Oh well lets just be glad for all the choices out there. I think we really are living in the golden age of firearms at this very instant. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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TSEMP: I have two Dakota 76's, one African in .416 Rigby and a Safari in .375 H&H. The Safari .375 H&H is far and away the best .375 I have owned and I have had many by many different makers over the last 35 years. My rifle has pretty good stock dimensions for both iron sights as well as scope use. This gun is very accurate with both 300 grain and 270 grain loads but they do not shoot to the same point of impact. I would highly recommend the Dakota Safari. I don't know what your physical stature is but the Safari fits me much better, and is quite a bit lighter than the African Model. When all factors are considered, overall beauty, modern metals, and standard options such as drop magazines ect. I think they are a very good buy. They are not a full custom job but, they are not $20,000.00 either. | |||
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Thanks Steven, I am 6,6 300 pounds so I don't have a small frame. That said I love the Safari look. I will be building a 338 in that rifle. Do you wish your 416 rigby was in safari instead of African? I am thinking of doing my 404 Jeffery in African. Should I think about doing it in safari? | |||
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The Dakota African action is designed around the 416 Rigby length cartridge (e.g., 416Rigby, 450Dakota, etc.) The Safari actions are for a 375H&H length cartridges. I believe the 404Jeffery is 375H&H length, but I don't see why it wouldn't work in the slightly longer "African" action. | |||
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Does that mean I shouldn't be doing the 404 Jeffery on the African? I know that the African stock is a little larger. Will this be foolish to build on for the 404? | |||
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Why does a rifle have to be a value.I think my Dakotas look like what a western hunting rifle is supposed to look like. They are a pleasure to carry and shoot. When I hunt I like the idea of carrying something that not everybody has. Buy one and enjoy it. I have $500 rifles that shoot paper a little bit better, but they don't get to go hunting as much as the Dakotas! good luck, Shayne | |||
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I have shot Tim's rifle and can attest that it is a superb gun and functions flawlessly. However, his handloads are too hot...LOLOL Dave DRSS Chapuis 9.3X74 Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL Krieghoff 500/.416 NE Krieghoff 500 NE "Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer" "If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition). | |||
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