Some of you may have seen this in a different forum, but thought I'd post here too for your advice.


So I was at the range yesterday with four different loads of 300 grain North Fork soft points. On my way to the range I picked up some "cheap" Federal factory ammo to do some sighting in first.

After firing off several of the Federals and getting the zero roughly 2 inches high at a 100 yards with no feeding issues, I moved on to the NF loads. I loaded the NF bullets last night with brass that had been shot once before. I measured the length of the brass prior to loading and all pieces were under the maximum, so I did not trim any cases.

While shooting, I loaded the magazines each time with either 3 rounds or 2 rounds. I had 20 bullets made up with 5 shots per each of the 4 different powder loads, so 3 and 2 was the logical way to load them.

On several occasions the bullets did not want to feed properly into the chamber. They came up out of the magazine it seemed with no problem. But when going into the chamber the bolt would stop short. After a bit of jiggling or starting over with the bullet resting on the magazine, they would feed. But obviously this isn't the way it should be.

When I originally fired this brass it was with Nosler Accubonds and no feeding issues whatsoever. Again, the Federal factory ammo also did not have a feeding problem.

So the difference with the problem loads today was using the North Fork bullets and once fired brass. I have a hard time believing the bullet had anything to do with this problem. I'm guessing it was the brass being a little bit longer and the bullet jammed on the neck.

What do you all think? And what should I do about this?

It is very possible the bullet was out of the case far enough for it to hit the rifling, so I would measure the cartridge OAL for starters. Figure out what the max COAL is in that particular rifle and load your new ammo accordingly. Those longer 300gr bullets with a more abrupt ogive could be the culprit, hitting the rifling before it is fully chambered. This could also elevate pressures really quick too. As long as the brass length does not exceed max length before needing trimming, it is unlikely to be the problem. Measure the neck with a bullet seated to make sure it is not oversized there as well. You can also inspect the shoulder of the loaded cases to make sure there are no bumps there from the pressures of seating the bullets in the case.

7MMNut, I haven't seen your post elsewhere so don't know what sort of replies you got. I am surprised when you say that you do not think the bullet has anything to do with the problem when you say earlier say that "the bullets did not want to feed properly into the chamber". The fact that the ammo feeds off the mag follower suggests the NF are hanging up on the lip of the chamber.

If they are hanging up when deeper in the chamber but the cases are within spec for length then I would be looking at your seating. Is your bullet seating punch the wrong profile for the NF bullets and maybe cantering them into the case mouth which will show as a slight bulge on one side of the case neck?

If it was a case of the brass being a bit longer and pinching in the chamber you would normally only feel this as a tight bolt to close with the cartridge fully chambered or unless your chamber is so tight in spec that there is not enough relief for the case neck with a larger? diameter NF bullet. Mike the neck of your loaded Federals and compare with your loaded NFs.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodrow S:
It is very possible the bullet was out of the case far enough for it to hit the rifling, so I would measure the cartridge OAL for starters. Figure out what the max COAL is in that particular rifle and load your new ammo accordingly. Those longer 300gr bullets with a more abrupt ogive could be the culprit, hitting the rifling before it is fully chambered. This could also elevate pressures really quick too. As long as the brass length does not exceed max length before needing trimming, it is unlikely to be the problem. Measure the neck with a bullet seated to make sure it is not oversized there as well. You can also inspect the shoulder of the loaded cases to make sure there are no bumps there from the pressures of seating the bullets in the case.

I should have mentioned in my original post that I loaded these to SAMMI max spec of 3.6 inches and I measure the length after seating the bullets for every single load. I had a bad experience with TSX's not seating consistently and experiencing problems like you described.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle27:
7MMNut, I haven't seen your post elsewhere so don't know what sort of replies you got. I am surprised when you say that you do not think the bullet has anything to do with the problem when you say earlier say that "the bullets did not want to feed properly into the chamber". The fact that the ammo feeds off the mag follower suggests the NF are hanging up on the lip of the chamber.

Again probably a poor original post. The bolt was about half closed when it would hang which made me think it was the brass. But you may still be right. If this were the case, would this mean a mod to the rifle is in order?

If they are hanging up when deeper in the chamber but the cases are within spec for length then I would be looking at your seating. Is your bullet seating punch the wrong profile for the NF bullets and maybe cantering them into the case mouth which will show as a slight bulge on one side of the case neck?

Well this was the first time I've loaded these and I was paying pretty close attention for any abnormalities after I seated the bullet. I didn't notice anyting out of the ordinary.

If it was a case of the brass being a bit longer and pinching in the chamber you would normally only feel this as a tight bolt to close with the cartridge fully chambered or unless your chamber is so tight in spec that there is not enough relief for the case neck with a larger? diameter NF bullet. Mike the neck of your loaded Federals and compare with your loaded NFs.

Well I shot all of the NF loads, but I'll take a few measurements on the fired Federals as well as the rounds I had left over plus the fired NF brass. I'll let you know. Thanks for your reply.

Try measuring off the ogive since the NF's are a bit longer than a pure cup and core bullet. As others have said, the seating and not the bullet itself may be the problem. I have used this method for several years to determine, accurately, how far off the lands the bullet was seated.

Geronimo

have experienced this and i have put it down to the edge of the case mouth catching on the bottom edge of the chamber. My guess is that you were cycling the bolt slowly?

My pre-64 Model 70 won't feed NF bullets. The big edge catches on the chamber edge. I am not going to alter it, just keep using normal type bullets I have used for 5+ decades, no real need to change, just thought I'd see.

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
My pre-64 Model 70 won't feed NF bullets. The big edge catches on the chamber edge. I am not going to alter it, just keep using normal type bullets I have used for 5+ decades, no real need to change, just thought I'd see.

By "the big edge", do you mean the bullet tip is catching on the chamber edge?

I'll bet Woodrow has the right answer.

SAMMI spec unfortunately doesn't mean a whole lot. I had my press set up to load 220 Noslers in 30-06 to 3.30", just under the max length of 3.34". They feed well in all of my guns.

I recently loaded a few hundred 220 Hornadys and had to reduce the length to 3.16" in order to get them to feed and not touch the rifling in my 3 30-06s. They, like the NFs, are much more blunt.

As an aside, they grouped into 1.5" yesterday with open sights despite the much more compressed charge, so I'm not complaining!!!

Model 70 Winchesters have extractor cuts on the breach face of the barrel, where the extractor seats when the bolt is closed.

They always ought to be polished, rounded, beveled on any sharp edges there, including all around the chamber entrance.

Any bullet with exposed lead at the nose might snag there, the more lead, the worse the tendency.
Polishing it prevents jambs or misfeeds.

The old Winchester roundnose SP could do the same.
If the rifle won't feed North Fork softpoints, it needs attention by a gunsmith.
Remove the barrel and polish thoughs sharp edges at the chamber entrance.
Polish everything else of the feed ramp and feed rails, insides of the box and follower, if there are any rough surfaces, etc., while you are at it.
Maybe that simple bit of slicking up will do the trick, though reshaping the feed ramp a bit is sometimes required for the really blunt, big meplat FN solids.

Shorter OAL of cartridge will often improve feeding of the FN solids, and soft points too.

Use a cartridge with an unmarred bullet nose and feed it until it jambs.
Then look at the nose of the bullet and see if the exposed lead is gouged ... like when it pokes into the edge of that extractor cut on the breach ...
Could have been a Monday morning or Friday afternoon at the factory, light on final polishing.

Yes, seating the bullet into touching the rifling is a bad idea, and could spike the pressure,
unless you are just doing it to fireform wildcat rifle brass with pistol powder and filler loads.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnivorous_Bob:
I'll bet Woodrow has the right answer.

SAMMI spec unfortunately doesn't mean a whole lot. I had my press set up to load 220 Noslers in 30-06 to 3.30", just under the max length of 3.34". They feed well in all of my guns.

I recently loaded a few hundred 220 Hornadys and had to reduce the length to 3.16" in order to get them to feed and not touch the rifling in my 3 30-06s. They, like the NFs, are much more blunt.

As an aside, they grouped into 1.5" yesterday with open sights despite the much more compressed charge, so I'm not complaining!!!

Noted, thanks for teaching me something new. I'll be checking the maximum COAL tomorrow per Woodrow and work it from there.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Model 70 Winchesters have extractor cuts on the breach face of the barrel, where the extractor seats when the bolt is closed.

They always ought to be polished, rounded, beveled on any sharp edges there, including all around the chamber entrance.

Any bullet with exposed lead at the nose might snag there, the more lead, the worse the tendency.
Polishing it prevents jambs or misfeeds.

The old Winchester roundnose SP could do the same.
If the rifle won't feed North Fork softpoints, it needs attention by a gunsmith.
Remove the barrel and polish thoughs sharp edges at the chamber entrance.
Polish everything else of the feed ramp and feed rails, insides of the box and follower, if there are any rough surfaces, etc., while you are at it.
Maybe that simple bit of slicking up will do the trick, though reshaping the feed ramp a bit is sometimes required for the really blunt, big meplat FN solids.

Shorter OAL of cartridge will often improve feeding of the FN solids, and soft points too.

Use a cartridge with an unmarred bullet nose and feed it until it jambs.
Then look at the nose of the bullet and see if the exposed lead is gouged ... like when it pokes into the edge of that extractor cut on the breach ...
Could have been a Monday morning or Friday afternoon at the factory, light on final polishing.

Yes, seating the bullet into touching the rifling is a bad idea, and could spike the pressure,
unless you are just doing it to fireform wildcat rifle brass with pistol powder and filler loads.

I'm going to check the COAL first and then keep this in mind. I did a bit more checking in the last hour and the Federals which are also pretty blunt too measured around 3.58" and fed flawlessly.

Thanks to all for taking time to help me out on this!

"thoughs" = "those " above

Well I couldn't wait until tomorrow. I seated a bullet long in an empty case and loaded it using the lands to force the bullet into the case. The length of the bullet after doing this was 3.744 inches. So per NF's advice, if I seated the bullet so that OAL was 3.7", that would be 0.044", basically in the middle of the .035 to 0.05" off the lands they recommend. But that would be 0.1" longer than I loaded.

Also, I tried loading this same bullet from the magazine and it jammed just like the bullets from yesterday.

Looks like I may need that polishing you speak of RIP.

quote:

Originally posted by 7MMNut:

quote:

Originally posted by AfricanHunter:
My pre-64 Model 70 won't feed NF bullets. The big edge catches on the chamber edge. I am not going to alter it, just keep using normal type bullets I have used for 5+ decades, no real need to change, just thought I'd see.

By "the big edge", do you mean the bullet tip is catching on the chamber edge?

Yes, I should have said the edge of the big flat front of the bullet.

It is possible that polishing the feed ramp will solve the problem. You didn't mention the rifle. I had this problem with a M70 375, and polishing solved the problem.

The polish should do the trick. My M70 had the same issue with 350gr Woodleighs. I sent a couple of loaded rounds with the rifle to the smith and now everything is smooth as silk.

Looks like polishing is the concensus here. I've never had this done on any of my rifles. Can you guys give me a ballpark figure as to how much this costs?

Mine was done included in other work so I can't tell you. You may want to post that question in the Gunsmith area.