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| one of us |
PShooter, Maybe I can help you out a little here.... How about those 1000's of yahoos who are out there shooting up the woods with rifles and wounding game??? and unfortunately they are abundant.. I have allways thought a shooting test would be in order, kinda like a drivers license..Half the hunting society does not comprehend how to sight in a rifle, now thats scary... ------------------ | |||
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| <pshooter> |
Ray, I can't make a logical argument against the 1,000 yahoos. I've even met one and HE doesn't realize he's one of them. It is a self-discipline thing and they are just that way. Not to say that they should be excused, but they aren't going to change unless they are forced to. And that, my friend, is the slippery slope. At what point does "right" submit to law. Anti's poke at that daily. Glad I don't have to make that call! mvm [This message has been edited by pshooter (edited 02-19-2002).] | ||
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one of us |
quote: I find myself in agreement with these ideas. I gave up hunting pretty much because of these reasons. I've had to put down other hunters badly hit animals all to often. I don't care what you shoot or hunt with, if you can place your shot well, will get your game after the first shot whatever that takes, and have the whatever to not take the bad shot. I switched to black powder for a few years, but the morons found those seasons too. Maybe there will be a season for spears, eh? ------------------ BTW, I don't think most of the hunters/shooters on this forum are in the moron group. Y'all argue a bit, but views on game and hunting are pretty much pro ethical hunting. [This message has been edited by 8MM OR MORE (edited 02-23-2002).] | |||
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one of us |
Don't let anybody fool ya. Size matters. | |||
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| <pshooter> |
Agreed..Even the best shooters occasionally have shots that go bad and more power helps stack the deck in the shooter's favor. And once the bullet hits, that's who MUST win. Otherwise, you become a yahoo. And they have enough allready. [This message has been edited by pshooter (edited 02-25-2002).] | ||
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| <3000fps> |
Why big bore rifles? Why small bore rifles? I have seen a deer shot by a .45-70 come running through a field. He covered almost 600 yards, bleeding profusely, before he went down. Some hunter comes running out of the brush with his lever .45-70 held high. Thru my binoculars, I could clearly see the wound in the deers ass. He shot it with the biggest gun he had, just to make a hole big enough for it to bleed to death. Shot placement did not count for a second in his mind. In the same hunting spot, I've seen deer still alive after being hit 4 times by a 7.62x39 Russian semi auto. I walked by it and tracked blood for almost 400 feet, when I ran into a hunter, proudly carrying his not-enough rifle, asking "Where's my deer?". I do not need to say that I was forced to mercy kill that poor, gut-shot animal, but I am new to your forums and probably more easily scrutinised, so there it is. I had to shoot someone elses trophy. Now, how come when I nail a deer with a 150gr. Partition from my .270, they either collapse on the spot, or the force of the bullet impact knocks them over a few feet before they drop? Or when my Dad nails one with his '06, or our hunting partner gets a nice one with his 7x64? Because, in the hands of a hunter who values clean, humane and safe hunting, these are some of the finest deer rounds available. The same can be said for a lot of other rounds as well. Does this make them good moose or elk or brown bear or lion or buffalo guns? No, of course not. Some of them might cross over somewhat, but for other species, a larger gun is needed. Especially if the animal is dangerous. Ever wonder why Man is at the top of the food chain? Because Animal cannot return fire. Me take an '06 bear hunting? Sure, it's fantastic of black bear. Browns? Never, I'd take an 8mm or .338 at the very least! Does using bigger guns make it OK for me to be lax about shot placement? NO! Especially not on dangerous game, where not only is it not humane, but it can end the life of hunter as well. No one wants that. Some people want to use the big bores on smaller game. Why not? If they can shoot it accurately and make clean kills on game, than I say let them. Screw all those "bad hunters" that take the fun and meaning out of our sport and "gun haters" trying to ban the tools that helped forge the world. I've got a big bore for them... BTW, there is no substitute for a V8. | ||
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| one of us |
Many years ago, at Philmont a Scoutmaster on a mountain trail killed a bear with a 22 short- shot him in the roof of the mouth when he reared up to eat the troop. That happened to be enough gun but I seriously doubt it was his choice. Remember that light is toxic and the more you let in the faster the animal dies. | |||
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| <pshooter> |
Dr. Duc, a very unique and "enlightening" definition of blood-letting. | ||
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| one of us |
Kent The problems you have described are HUNTER problems....NOT equipment problems! In the last 3 years, I have killed 5 deer with archery equipment. My farthest shot was 25 yards. Of the 5, 4 dropped within 40 yards, the fifth went about 100 yards. I killed my first deer with a 30-06, at the shot, he jumped a 4 foot fence and ran up hill for 175 yards. The 150 grain bullet had completely destroyed his heart and both lungs. I guess since the rifle shot deer ran farther than any of the bow shot deer, the 30-06 MUST be a less effective killer of deer ;-)? A shaving sharp broadhead is extremely effective when applied appropriately!!! If it isn't placed in the right spot, then it is an application problem NOT an equipment problem.....Period! | |||
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| one of us |
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that everything has limitations? Bows are not as versatile as rifles period! Accept that. The problem is that too many bowhunters cannot accept their limitation and that of their equipment and leave wounded game running all over the woods. There are far too many gun hunters though that do the same thing. My problem with bows is that if the arrow head does not stay in the animal's body there is a very good chance that the animal will clot up and live. Unless of course the arrow head severed a major blood vessel. I have seen far too many arrow wounded deer over the years. I would say that the ratio of arrow wounded deer to gun wounded deer would be about 4 to 1. Considering that their are many more gun hunters I formed my opinion that bows are not a good idea. One last reason I quit letting bow hunters on my farm. Ever lose an arrow in the woods? Guess what I opened up my forearm real good pushing though some brush on an old arrow lodged in the brush. Those broad heads are razor sharp I believe that. The problem is they stay that way for long time. Besides if they ban bows then I can hunt in those suburban areas with a slug gun. Kent | |||
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| one of us |
Kent If I put a broadhead through both lungs or the heart.....the deer will not clot up and go on down the road! The fact that there are some slob archery hunters out there shouldn't cause you to call for the banning of archery equipment! Using your logic, I guess we should ban hunting with slug guns too!!! You have every right to ban the use of archery equipment on property you own.....but don't get carried away and try to tell the rest of us how we should hunt! Are there more efficient weapons???? Certainly! Any of my centerfire rifles are much more efficient weapons than the slug guns you are required to use in your state.....in fact....I could make the case that slug guns are obsolete just as easily as you could make the case that archery equipment is!!! I'd respectfully suggest that you rethink your position or at least choose your words more carefully....they may be used against all of us hunters some day! | |||
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| one of us |
quote:
The problem is not the bow, it is not the calibre, it is not the cartridge, and it is not the type of arm. The problem lies with the hunter who fails to recognise his/her limitations and that of the selected hunting arm. Ban whatever you want and discover the ugly truth.... nothing is accomplished except the loss of personal freedom. ~Holmes | |||
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| one of us |
Actually there aren't any farms in my area where bowhunters are welcome. They still go and danger up the state land a few miles from my farm though. By danger up I mean leave broad head arrows in the brush from there missed shots! See arrows are dangerous to all of us since the bow hunters don't retrieve there lost arrows. This is not always do to negligence though it can be damned hard to find an arrow. Bows are obsolete as hell. Slug guns are a far better more user friendly alternative by far. I have shot several deer over the years that had been hit in one lung with an arrow and lived long enough to get killed by me in gun season. Kent | |||
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| <pshooter> |
You shoot a bow beside your neighbor's house, then shoot your slug gun and see which one he runs outside for. You are fooling yourself if you think that a GUN will be allowed if archery is stopped. PETA would love to get a toe-hold in that issue! | ||
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one of us |
quote: HUHHHHHHH? Is there a frigging echo in this thread? All you did, Kent in IA, is repete in 2000 words what I said, and then disagree with me, and state it again. Did I not say use what is legal, but use it properly, and responsibly? How do you figure the outlawing of a particular hunting method, or tool is going to get rid of slob hunters? You are doing exactly the same thing the anti hunters, and anti gunners do by blameing the tools for the actions of slobs. To state flatly that archery hunting is outmoded, and inhumane is outright lunacy. If you want to know what does even more damage to "OUR" sport, and I'm not sure it "IS" YOUR sport, is posts like your's downgradeing any other hunting mode other than the one you like. As far as arrows being inhumane , I think you're all wet, I've hunted mostly with rifles shotguns, and rifles,for my 59 years of hunting on my own since the age of six years, but I hunted every bow season for 25 years or so, and I never wounded, and lost even one animal with it. I see far more wounded deer after the rifle season, on our ranch, than I do after the bow season. Neither one however, has anything to do with the weapon but the A..hole useing it. I will say rifle hunters could take a lesson from bow hunters, and try to get as close as is possible, before shooting. The person who says arrow hunting is not ethical, is usually the same guy who shoots at an elk from 500 yds, simply because he can hit a piece of stationary paper from that distance. The fact is the paper doesn't move at the last second, and cause a bad hit. The elk takes a step at the same time you pull the trigger, and by the time that bullet gets to the elk at 500 yds, it hits him in the gut. At 500 yds a gut shot elk may not show sign of being hit, and because of this our hero who downs bow hunters for shooting an arrow from 25 yds, doesn't even go Here's the "TRUTH" there will always be drunk drivers,and they will not outlaw cars, or booze, there will always be riflemen who take shots with a rifle they souldn't, and they will not outlaw rifle hunting because of it, there will always be people who abuse wellfare, but they will not outlaw it, and finally there will always be those who say "IF IT ISN'T THE WAY "I" DO IT, IT SHOULD BE OUTLAWED"! The TRUTH is, the person who says that IS WRONG,PERIOD! ------------------ | |||
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| <pshooter> |
APPLAUSE........... | ||
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