according to most of the big bore advocates, the .375 H&H is a fine and superior cal. for dangerous game. My question is, using the following info from a reloading manual, how can the .375 H&H be superior to a .338-.378.

.375--300 gr. bullet--2500 fps muzzle vel.
100 yds. --2280fps--3525 ft. lbs.
200 yds. --2100fps--2900 ft. lbs.

.338-378--250 gr. bullet--3000 fps muzzle vel.
100 yds.-2800fps--4350 ft. lbs.
200 yds.-2600fps--3750ft. lbs.

the difference between bullets is only .037 inches in diameter.

what am i missing, it's driving me nuts.

the difference is administriva in some places...

a PH's report from tanzania stated that under the 458 lott/470 ne.. the 338x378 was the most impressive hitting round they saw


jeffe

You give velocity too much credit. Plus, the 375 is the bottom of the scale not the top.

The fact is that the 338/378 is not legal for DG and if you are hunting i lets say Zim or Tan then you might come across DG and maybe like to shoot it.
I had a .338 lapua magnum almost the same as the .338/378 wby it is a fine round. But at close range it is to fast and do not expand enough. it is made for lange range shoothing.
both are fine calibers but not easy to compare


Eland shot with .338 Lapua magnum 275 grn Swift-Aframe


Cheers,

Andr�

Thanks for the answers gents, but most of it is old wives tales or legalese --both of which i cannot glean any information as to comparason. It is hard for me to believe that a round delivering 4350 ft lbs. of energy at 100 yards is not superior to one delivering 3525. If only Elmer Keith were alive, he would have the real world answer. Thanks anyhow.

TC,
elmer is alive.. at least his spirit is..

Elmer would have said "and why are you looking at that 338... that's a marginal deer rifle, better keep it for 'yotes... and what's wrong with a 458 lott.. or, now that neal has created it, a 550? "

jeffe

The one thing that we often forget is that the bullet does the work, and it is the only thing we should think about. High velocities have simply not panned out as reliably ways to drop dangerous game. Our host Saeed has dropped his fair share of cape buffalo, mostly with a 300 gr .375" X bullet out of his 375-404. His personal experience has been that the bullet performs best when leaving the barrel at 2600-2650 fps, even though as I recall he's launched it upwards of 2800 fps, which should certainly be in the energy level of your hot 33.

Back to bullets, a bullet can only do so much killing, pushing it faster only flattens the trajectory, and often times creates unpredictable results at close range.

Frontal area! Do you understand this concept?

Now the hydro-dynamic pressure front generated by the bullet is a function of the bullet's frontal area, nose or point geometry (this would include the tip and ogive portion of the bullet), and velocity! So if the velocity differential between the two bullets is sufficiently great coupled with the relative differences in point geometry, the smaller diameter 338-378, may well prove more destructive to soft tissue than the larger diameter, but slower 375 H&H.

Do you understand that concept?

So the answer to your question is it depends upon both the diameter of the bullets, the velocity the bullets are travelling as the progress through the target, and what the actual target material is. I am sure that we can concoct scenarios in which either the 338/378 or the 375H&H are the better of the two.

ASS_CLOWN

How about bullet placement? I suspect a .338-.378 in the hoof is probably not as good a killer as a .375 through the heart/ lungs. Perhaps frontal area obviates these trivial concerns.-Rob

The "real-world" answer (as opposed to the ten-gallon hat answer) is that the .375 H&H is not only much more shootable than the .338-378 for most people, but as has been mentioned, it's legal for dangerous game in most African countries, whereas the .338-378 is not. Killing power, practicality, and effectiveness on game is not always related to paper energy. Even the spirit and collected hokum of Elmer Keith can't make people properly shoot a cartridge that kicks like a sonofabitch, nor can it make an illegal caliber legal in localities where it is not legal.

Personally, I don't think the .338-378 is at all necesary for any N. American hunting, and the .375 H&H is more practical for Africa no matter how anyone cuts it. All you need do is actually shoot some African critters with a .375 H&H in order to see that it's more than up to 'most any task, and it's also quite shootable. Those are two reasons why it's been an African institution for ninety-plus years. The .338-378 never will become an established cartridge in Africa (or anywhere else), nor will it ever be available in safari camps if you have an ammo problem. The .375 H&H is almost as universal there as the .30-06 is here........


AD

Robert,

Excellent point! I was speaking under an assumption of equivalent bullet placement.

ASS_CLOWN

"killing effect" is a complicated issue, which is argued endlessly.

But it is a combination of energy, momentum, bullet frontal area, bullet construction, bullet velocity, bullet penetration, and, of course, bullet placement.

On any given day, you probably couldn't tell that a 375 was any better than, or maybe worse than, a 338/378, with good shot placement.

But "good" shot placement on dangerous game takes out the dangerous part.

It is when poor shot placement happens for whatever reason, or an animal charges either from being wounded or unprovoked that it is evidenced that bigger is better (bigger diameter and bigger mass).

Though "bigger is better" was probably first put in print by John Taylor, it has been confirmed by many individual hunters with more experience than all the gun writers put together.

But you do what you think is best.

which is more or less whta i've been sayign for years

1: sd around .300, bullet weight at least 300gr, mv, no more than 2400, no less than 2000,
2: I'ld MUCH rather have a near hit (tm) with a 500 jeffery than the EXACT same near hit with a 300w ...

ME means jack shite... it's an artifact...

It means EXACTLY as much as the "score" of shooting offhand at 50 yards vs the actual placement and grouping of the bullets... if you meant them to be 2" high, and it's a 3" group, your "score" could be 21-27 (assuming a 10pt target), but the placement was PERFECT.... but if you MEANT it to be 2" high, and you had a 1" group, 1in left and dead in the bull, and had a perfect 30, that's just happenstance.

or, if you really really really want to count ME, let's start at 5000ft/lbs

jeffe

I answered this question correctly, any further discussion is aimless!

ASS_CLOWN