I have a VZ-24 that has been reworked and barreled in 404 Jefferys. Currently, the barrel is 24" long.

With today's powders 2450fps is attainable with 400gr bullets.

Would you all see much of a velocity drop cutting the barrel to 20"?

thanks,

Rich

You'll only lose about 100 fps,
but 24" is the classic 404 Jeffery barrel length.
You simply have to decide, do you want to be conformist or a NonCon?
Mine is 24".

Who made the barrel?
That will decide "tight" or "loose" and be important for load.
Quite some variability in 404 barrels.

Mine is a loose McGowen 1:10", and I was a NonCon on that until CZ started using them on their factory rifles, which are 25".

BTW, "404 Jeffery" not 404 Jefferys,
but that is better than 404 Jeffreys.

I have 2.

One is a loose 24" McGowen on a Winchester M70 LH.

The other is a 23" LW Syn SS Montana 1999. If I had to chose the 23" is pretty cool--Kind of the best of both worlds.

Ed

quote:

do you want to be conformist or a NonCon?

Rich? A conformist??????

Go with the 20-21 inch should balance better, and you won't miss the 100 FPS.

RIP:

asked and answered.

We are exploring new territory with the idea of a carbine. I even considered a Mannlicher stock, but even I wasn't that far out in left field.

thanks guys,

Rich

H&H has made a few 3-7-5's with short barrels and Stutzen stocks. I know the 404 is a sizable step up from a 3-7-5, but I think it would be pretty cool, and You would probably be the only kid on the block who has one.
Matt

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
I have a VZ-24 that has been reworked and barreled in 404 Jefferys. Currently, the barrel is 24" long.

With today's powders 2450fps is attainable with 400gr bullets.

Would you all see much of a velocity drop cutting the barrel to 20"?

thanks,

Rich

A few questions you'll need to answer for yourself:
1) LOP?
2) Where is the current balance point of the rifle?
3) Will stock need to be lightened or have weight added if barrel shortened?
4) Cold weather rifle? Hot weather rifle? Or both?

I like both carbine style and Mannlicher stocked rifles. I also prefer a 'balanced look' even with short barreled rifles, and with my 14 3/8" LOP this typically requires a slightly longer barrel length than either style would normally have.

All in all, if a 20" barrel is what you desire then go with it, you'll still have plenty of velocity to kill whatever you're shooting at.

My custom 404 Jeffery made by Tip Burns has a 26 inch barrel! I love long barrels! If we are romancing the rifle and round you need a 26 inch barrel!

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
My custom 404 Jeffery made by Tip Burns has a 26 inch barrel! I love long barrels! If we are romancing the rifle and round you need a 26 inch barrel!

+1

I decide on 25 inch for my 416 Taylor she really hangs nicely for off hand shooting.

Plus they are not so loud on the ears I went through a short rifle/barreled phase. I prefer some what longer barrels now.

If your load is "hot" enough to get 2450 fps with a 400grs bullet out of a standard 24 inch barrel, you will get a lot of "wha-oumph" from that 20 inch version...

M

I had my 404 made 25", like it, 26" would be okay, no way. I had a .425 WR at 24" balanced nice but I still like 25". Years ago I picked up a factory FN in 404 in Kenya, it had 24" and I have seen others like it and they were all 24".

My 404 Jeffery was also built by Tip Burns and has a 23" barrel, I think it's the perfect length.

+1 for 23"

I suggest you make the rifle for any length you want. You may give up some velocity going to 20" but I doubt it will make any practicable difference. For cartridges with muzzle velocities between 2000fps and 2500fps you will only loose about 10fps per inch. So you should still get 2400fps out of a 20" barrel.

It's not all about the highest velocity you can get out of a cartridge. I think the 404 would even make a nice 16.5" barreled carbine if you fitted it with a flash suppressor/muzzle brake.

Just a reminder on the 404 Jeffery. It is not necessary to load the round 24-2500 FPS for it to do a good job. You can load the round hot enough to where it is capable of killing on both ends of the rifle!

My old original Jefferys had a 27 inch barrel, and btw it handled like a Boss shotgun. Wish I still had it, but a bad moment and it went elsewhere! money talks. With its long tube and 95 grs. of IMR-4831 it got 2653 FPS, Jim Brockman said I tried to break his shoulder with the recoil when I lent him a box of bullets to test his gun..that does produce recoil btw.

My present is a 24 inch gun and my previous one had a 20 inch barrel..The 20 inch barrel gave me 2300 FPS with its best load, and I could get 2350 at max...I could not tell that the 2300 FPS load killed any different than the 2653 FPS.
In fact I shot a few buffalo with the old std by 1920s load of 2100 FPS with the short tube gun and it killed as well as anything else after all that duplicated my 450-400 double gun, and nobody complains about the 450-400 unless they never used one.

Bottom line is if you want a 20 inch gun, have at it, your not changing much except balance perhaps. I have mostly been a 26 inch barrel person, but in the last 5 years, I have found one as good as the other and the reasoning behind either is of no consequences and without merit as to barrel length, its just a matter of preference..

I reworked old savage 300 RUM into 404 J and made it 20" barrel and that thing shoots like $ 10,000 custom with simple Redfiled 2x7x36
Touche for us non custom rifle owners, it's the man behind the gun and ammo, not the gun.
No need to shoot 1" group less you are gun nut and anal retentive...

boarkiller,
The eye of a charging buffao is about one inch!
I don't consider a one inch grouping rifle something to sneer about.

Guess it depends on ones point of view..I want all the accuracy I can get and that has little to do with the cost of rifle or if its custom or rigged together from parts, both can shoot great or both can be totally inaccurate.

My new gunsmith told me to leave it at 24", just like I got it. If it is clumsy, he said THEN! he will shorten it. They do look nicer with a 24-26" barrel...

Mine is 24". Shorter barrels=more muzzle blast and muzzle lift. No way there is a big difference in portability between 24 and 20. Now 30" is something else.

Excellent choice, ISS.

quote:

Originally posted by emron:
Mine is 24". Shorter barrels=more muzzle blast and muzzle lift. No way there is a big difference in portability between 24 and 20. Now 30" is something else.

Ditto, and those 30-inch-barreled ones can be harder to fit into a gun safe or a rifle case too.

I know there has been a trend toward short barrels over the last couple years. Personally I like to keep at much length as I can. My 375 had a 30" barrel on it. The only issue I ever had with it was trying to find a decent case that it would fit in. I had to remove the stock to fit it in my TuffPak. The combination of the barrel length with a 14.5" LPO made it just a bit too long for the case. My 404 barreled action has a barrel at 25" because that is where the barrel contour worked out.

I was talking about inch at 100 yards, these big calibers at 50 yards and less will all shoot very accurately with any good loads.
When you miss charging buff or ele or other DG is because the excitement and all the other factors, not because of the gun, Trust me on that one. Long barrels in these situations can get more likely in the way and be a problem then short barrels with 3" group instead of one.
Proven fact gents.

Nice looking is in the eyes of the beholder,I believe. I have a 602Zkk in 375H&H and a CZ550 Magnum in 416Rigby and they are both cut to 21". My last safari ,I took a nice Elephant with the 416 with no problems and it is very handy in and out of a truck and in the brush. I also have an 03 based 458 Win Mag built by A&M Rifle Co and it has a nice 16 1/2" barrel with a nice Beech stock with a slim forend and Schnabel. My favorite .223 is a Savage 'Hog Hunter' with the short rather heavy barrel. I actually prefer short barrels for looks and really dislike the long skinny barrels of most English rifles especially with iron sights on them and I don't consider a rifle finished without irons whether they are ever used or not. As I say in the eyes of.

true...

Hey Rich,

Your barrel looks fine just the way it is.

L/D

LD,

yes, you need to come by and see the 404J in Midnight Blue (with double the hardener). The semi-gloss finish looks just great.

For many years I have been a fan of the 26 inch barrel in most calibers and all my DGRs were 27 except my original Jefferys was 27...
I have had a couple of 40 calibers that I cut to 20 inches, the barrels were fairly heavy and they balanced better with the short tubes..one a 404 and the other a 416 Rem..

The nicest double I ever owned I traded for from a good friend and ocassional poster on AR, it was a 450-400 with 20 inch barrels, and at the time I really had my doubts about it, but I actually liked that little gun better than any of the many doubles I have owned..Shot some buffalo with it and for some reason known only to the Gun traders God, I let it go! Dammit..

If I ever decide to shoot doubles again, I will have Butch make me a 450-3.25" with 20 inch barels and name it Egor!

I like any barrel length and never saw any advantage or disadvantage to barrel length between 20 and 26 inches..as long as a rifle shoots good and balances well, it works for me.
I think much to do is made of the subject.