50 cal (.510) sabot round for handloaders

29 August 2010, 23:35

chuck375

Hi, anyone aware of any 50 caliber sabot "bullets" for handloaders? I was thinking a .375 or .308 caliber round could be a lot of fun in my 500 Jeff for elk, deer and other "varmints"

Chuck

30 August 2010, 01:39

RIP

There have been plenty of plastic sabots in the past for .510-cal reduced to .308-cal.

Current 50BMG ammo is loaded with .308-caliber tungsten penetrators in plastic sabots.
Winchester was announced as the contract winner for that load in USA.

Must be OK for accuracy.
I have not tried it yet ... but shall ...
i am thinking 150-grain .308 bullets in my 1:10" twist 50-cals.
Another good reason for that twist.

30 August 2010, 05:58

Michael Robinson

This interests me. I saw the news about the Winchester contract.

Are the .510" to .308" sabots commercially available?

A .308" TTSX at 4,000 fps just might be very effective!

31 August 2010, 06:48

chuck375

I'm thinking it would be one hell of a mule deer or elk round out of my 500 Jeffery ...

Chuck

01 September 2010, 06:32

chuck375

How do you think these would do at about 3300 fps out of my 500 Jeffery on deer and elk?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewp...productnumber=462267

Chuck

01 September 2010, 06:49

RIP

Not the right caliber sabot, those are for muzzleloaders that shoot .495-caliber lead balls.

Somebody makes a sabot for .510/.308, somewhere over the rainbow ...

01 September 2010, 06:57

Robgunbuilder

What about some aluminum sabots for .510 to .308?-Rob

01 September 2010, 08:36

chuck375

That would be sweet. A .308 caliber 200g Nosler Partition at 3300 fps would generate 32 ft lbs of recoil at 13 fps recoil velocity vs my 570g TSX load at 2300 fps generating 80 ft lbs of recoil at 20.6 fps recoil velocity. Sighted in at 300 yards it would be 3" high at 100...

Would work for me ...

Chuck

01 September 2010, 21:42

Robgunbuilder

I'm not an expert on Sabots but given the fact that the drag force is the reason for separation, it would seem like a simple aluminum carrier that would hold a .375 300 gr bullet and is .510 should work just fine. Slotting the sabot would be possible, but adds alot of complexity. Perhaps RIP has some insight.-Rob

02 September 2010, 05:02

Michael Robinson

I'm with you 100%, Chuck!

Rob, would an aluminum sabot take the rifling and spin as a bullet should spin? The right kind of plastic will do that, as we all know.

Also, unlike you, I don't have a lathe - and wouldn't know how to use one if I did!

From the photo I have seen, the Winchester sabots used in the .50 BMG - .30 Caliber tungsten penetrator rounds appear to be plastic.

From the red sabots, I think every fifth round is a tracer.

I wonder if Winchester would sell these to us (if they make them), or tell us who their subcontractor is, so that we might buy some of them?

I may contact them to find out, and if I can get some, do some experiments with my .500 A-Square.

02 September 2010, 05:11

Robgunbuilder

I could make plastic or Aluminum sabots just like those with no problems. Oh yes, aluminum bullets take the rifling and spin as well as a copper or lead bullet. Looks like it's just a clear plastic with no cuts. that's exactly the sabot concept I was thinking of. I'll write a pgm and make a few to see what looks best. Your welcome to some for your experiments.-Rob

02 September 2010, 08:01

Michael Robinson

Rob, that is a generous offer, and if you do decide to do it, I will definitely take some.

I'm not sure whether I could do any better than a .30-.378 Wby., but I'd love to try!

06 September 2010, 19:43

akalinin

The .50 cal rounds pictured above are SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator) rounds, but I'm sure you guys already knew that.

I've read that SLAP's are not particularly accurate, as machine guns are meant to shoot patterns not groups.

Am I wrong in assuming sabot rounds are not as accurate as regular rifle rounds?

Additionally:

quote:
M903 Caliber .50 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator (SLAP)
M962 Saboted Light Armor Penetrator Tracer (SLAPT)
MISSION: To maximize the effectiveness of the M2 machine gun in engagement and defeat of lightly armored targets. The M903 SLAP has demonstrated capability to provide greatly increased penetration (2 to 3 times the armor thickness at any given range) over that of ammunition currently fielded. The M962 SLAPT assures the precision of delivery necessary to take full advantage of this capability.

Velocity: 3985 feet per second
Maximum effective range: 4921.5 feet (1500 meters) against 3/4" High Hard Armor (HHA)
Unit Replacement Cost: $7.50 per round

Features: .50 caliber SLAP ammunition was developed by the Marine Corps during the mid/late 1980s and was approved for service use in 1990 during Operation Desert Storm. It uses a reduced caliber, heavy metal (tungsten) .30 inch diameter penetrator wrapped in a "plastic" sabot or "shoe" of .50 inch diameter.
Since the mass of the saboted penetrator is much lighter in weight than normal ball .50 caliber ammunition, SLAP's velocity can be significantly and safely increased in an unmodified M2 Machine Gun. This produces a very fast round with a very flat trajectory which enhances hit probability. SLAP ammuntion is completely interoperable with M2 machine guns with stellite liner.

Background: During the 1980s, the Marine Corps invested in both .50 caliber and 7.62 x 51 SLAP concepts. The .50 caliber effort was very successful and extends the light armor capability of the M2 Heavy Machine Gun significantly. The 7.62mm effort was not successful in the M60 and caused catastrophic barrel failures due to in-bore break-up of the sabot and the penetrator puncturing the side of the barrel. Also, its increase in penetration was not on the same order of magnitude as the .50 caliber SLAP's.

A fixed price contract for initial production of 3.5 million rounds of 4/1 linked M903/M962 for the U.S. Marine Corps use was awarded 1QFY94. Contractor for this activity is Olin Corporation. Cartridges are being loaded, assembled and packed by the Winchester Division, East Alton, IL. M962 tracer projectiles are charged at Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (LCAAP). Production of 0.6 million rounds for Army use began 2QFY96.

06 September 2010, 21:19

Robgunbuilder

Military.50 Mg rounds are designed to disperse at 600 yrds and beyond. They are not very concentric by design. The SLAP bullets may not have been as accurate as some would like, but then I doubt they tried to match the barrel twist to the bullet and at 4000fps things are always a compromise. I've fired aluminum sabots before and they seemed to work just fine. -Rob

17 September 2010, 09:53

chuck375

Maybe we can talk North Fork into putting some of their new 350g .375 caliber soft points in .510 caliber sabots. I think they'd be excellent long range medicine at 3000 plus fps

Chuck