Ok:
I like simple. 22lr you HAVE to have. That's a given.

Now my real question is, if you have let's say, a 458 win, and or, a 460 WBY/Lott/Ackley, do you really need a 375 or a 30-06?

Don't hunt much, and, my hunting would be pretty much confined to things hunting me, or someone I was with.

Now it seems to me you can download any of the above, to reasonable specs, with lighter bullets, and still have decent long range accuracy, inside 250 yards, or even someways outside of it.

Most of these larger guns are very well made, very accurate, and, with decent handloads, offhand, are a pleasure to fire.

I guess if I can get a 458 win to drive a 300 grain bullet at 2600 fps, or there abouts, why do I need a 375?

I realize everyone thinks the 375 is a great cartridge, but, with factory 270 or 300 grain loads it kicks, and I don't see how that's going to be much different from a 458 based rifle, using the same bullet weight.. and velocity.

Plus, I get a bigger hole

GS

All of them I started out thinking my 06 was the best. Now I reload for 40 some differant cals. The more you reload the more you need. As to the 458 300 the SD if fairly low compared to the SD of the 375. You don't need more then one or two. But it is sure fun to have more to play with. When I get m 416 tayor dies there one more to go at.

still need lighter cals, as a 225gr .451 won't work in a 458, and if you had a 225 458, it's would have a lously BC and sd...

you "NEED"
22, 6-7mm small bore, 308-375, 40-475, and a 12ga.
that's 5
jeffe

Jeffe,
I like your break down of the necessary rifles.

Pick a good rifle from each bracket and one good 12 guage shotgun, and you got it covered.

However, I would like to add that everyone should have a .50 cal for good citizenship purposes, so that makes six necessary pieces.

All of them sounds right to me. - Dan

I have .22lr, .223, 22-250, .243, 6.5x50,6.5x52 6.5x55, .270, 7x57, 7mm-08, 7mm Rem Mag 7.62x39, .308, 30-06, .303, 7.65m53, 7.62x54r, 8x57, .35 Whelen, and .458win. For what I hunt the .458 is the most useless, but it's fun to have anyway. If I could only have one caliber, it would be the .270 win.

Just rifles or are we talking handguns too?
For Rifles: .458 Lott (since it can fire Win Mags),
.460 Weatherby, .577 Nitro Express (for fun ), and just maybe a .50 Beowolf.

For handguns: 10mm, .454 Casull. And for fun the .475 Linebaugh and .50AE.

The .454, since it can hanle .45 Colts too, would be the small-to-medium game gun, and the .458 or .460 for the big stuff. 10mm for carry, plinking, and deer-or-smaller game (assumming the "fun" guns aren't there).

OK:
Let's see. 223 works, since I would love a AR 15, or something accurate, with a 20 round mag for home defense. No dice. People's Republic of Kalifornia. Only POS mini-14's here.

22lr will have to suffice, in 452 CZ, which, when I do my part, will one hole at 25 and 50 yards, on a good day.

308 and 30-06, everyone should have one, since the calibers, and meal deals on ammo make reloading more expensive then buying ammo lots(have 500 rounds of ball, 150 grain mil sup for next to nothing, in 30-06). Only thing better, 308. MUCH better is a matchgrade M1A/M14 or, an M1 Garand.

But really: for my shooting needs, the above drive tacks, but I'm getting old, so I need a BIG hole to see my 50-100 yard target groups.

375 IS NICE. It's cheap, accurate, and, will suffice for ANYTHING THAT WALKS THE PLANET, provided you place the first shot in the right place. After that, all bets are off.

For long range, the 375 is good, the rum is better, and the 404/375 ain't bad, ask Saeed.

I guess I could live comfortably with the 22 lr, 308 or 30-06, and rechambering my 375 to 460. I would like a lighter, 458 win mag for carry.

As for caliber, for pistols, same deal. 22 lr for plinking(Colt trooper mark III drive tacks)
45 acp, 45 colt/linebaugh=slightly less then 454(is 345 at 1550 enough for you?).

Mil sup for 45 acp for plinking. 45 super for full house.

Who needs anything else? I have been considering a 38/357 S&W titanium pocket pistol, at 12 oz, for carry, if that was legal in my area...
Another caliber!!! stick to 45 acp...
S

[ 02-12-2003, 11:06: Message edited by: Socrates ]

7x57 or 64
9.3x62 or 64
.404 Jeffery

I'll just stick with my Mod 62 Winchester 22 lr, a 375 H&H FN Mauser, and a 12 ga shotgun, and hunt the world over!

Here is a very nice substitute, however!

http://www.champlinarms.com/gundetail.cfm?id=974

Model 63 Winchester 22 LR,
.375 H&H
12 Ga.

.223 for home defense? Jeez, I hope you live in a concrete walled building, or you'll be able to kill everything you are defending and probably your neighbors' sidings! How far is the fartherest wall in your house? A 20 ga. or a 12 ga. with #9 will suffice nicely for home defense.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

Like most of the folks on these forums, I like having lots of guns and lots of different rounds to fool around with. But I could be just as happy with a 22LR, 12 gauge shotgun, a 30-06 and maybe a 375- in that order.

My choices would be:

22 LR
.223 fun and varmits of all kinds
.308 light deer caliber for places where noise matters
.338 for larger game where weight is an issue
and
either a .375 H&H or a .416 Rigby for very large or dangerous game

In handguns:

41Mag for deer sized game
40 S&W for carry
45 ACP for carry

And ... I practice what I preach. Have been struggling with the decision on the largest caliber. Have a very accurate .375 H&H, but want very much to try the Rigby!

I guess you just don't get it,so I will explain it to you.

You don't "need" anything other than some sort of handgun or shotgun for home protection (using any sort of rifle is just plain DUMB).

You don't "need" to go plinking or hunting.You do it because it's fun and you enjoy it.The same with rifles.You don't buy one because you "need" it-you buy it because you want it and because it will give you joy.

We're all hoping you will buy SOMETHING soon.You keep asking over and over and OVER again what you should buy.We cannot answer for you-only YOU can decide what will bring you the most pleasure.

Brian.

Brian,

You may not fully comprehend the range of situation of folks on the list and so are make some pretty broad statements.

1) I live in the country and a rifle for home defense is not out of the question ... but I have a riot gun for that.

2) Yes, I NEED a hunting piece. It's use is to provide food for the table. For some living on fixed incomes it may be the difference between eating and not.

Lighten up Guy!

I need the guns I want

I think a 22lr, 223, 300 win mag, 350 rem mage, 350 Rigby, 458 lott and 500 jeffrey would fit my hunting needs. I have a few of those, and a few are in the works.

The real reason to have a medium bore and a heavy is that while a heavy can be loaded with lighter bullets, you still want the gun to be heavy enough to be comfortable to shoot. For instance, I want a 458 lott to be 9-10#'s, but I want the 350 rem mag to be 7#'s or less. With the 300 win mag, I can drive 165's nearly 3300 fps, which makes it much flatter shooting then I can ever make a 458 lott.

like = want = need. simple equation that has yet to steer me wrong on anything.

Brian:
I'll spell it out for you. It's called GANGS!!
We spent Friday, locked in a gym, under code blue, because a gang guy had not been paid on a drug deal, came on campus, waived a gun around the front office, and went out, trying to find the guy that didn't pay(he was told the guy was in the same gym I was in, by the way).

Rational? No, he had to be high as a kite to do something that stupid, but he did it. Nice way to start the weekend...

We have two gangs competing for the drug trade on our campus. That's why we have violence, among other reasons.

LA was a police, and fire, free zone during the Rodney King riots. Those terrible Koreans that shot looters did so because the police chief, and the fire chief, pulled their squads out, because they did not want to loose officers to gun fire.

In other words, the police did not "serve and protect" at all during the riot.

In the Pacific Palisades, homeowners banded together, with their security forces, setup barricades, and stopped access to their community with hunting rifles, so the gangs couldn't enter their area, and loot.

For such situations, large magazines ARE a big deal. These guys don't do ANYTHING without their
buddies, and, they usually have at least 10 guys around.

The stupid legislators that passed the mag capacity law, sure must live in exclusive neighborhoods. Yes, assault rifles have a place. They are to be used in home defense against large gangs. This is a real situation in Kalifornia, since the major mexican gang is backed by the Mexican mafia, and they have no problem getting illegal weapons, just as they get illegal drugs, from Mexico. This gang has 4 MILLION MEMBERS.

Got the picture?

GS

PS: I have NOT had a wonderful couple months, thanks to a doctor that told me I was fine, and, that night, ended up with a leg twice the size of my other one, and spent a week in the hospital, very close to death, with blood clots in my leg, and lungs.

So, the comments about fixed income, and not buying all the toys you want: right on the money...

[ 02-13-2003, 08:32: Message edited by: Socrates ]

What I have perceived from your writings earlier,is that you wanted to use a rifle for home protection i.e-burgler in your house.Now you're talking gang warfare and that's a totaly different scenario.

To try to make my point a bit clearer-you don't "need" a 458 for anything.You certainly don't "need" if for protecting your home,or hunting deer or plinking.You "want" it.Do not confuse "need" with "want".

As I said before,buy whatever pleases you the most.We cannot tell you which you will enjoy more than the other as we are not you and each person likes the same thing differently.

Get my drift?

Brian.

Yes, and I just realized I'm giving you a hardtime because I'm trying to deal with my mother being put in a home by my stepfather. Just had the phone call.

Sorry, my fault. I understand your point, and, I realize I'm trying to rationalize a 458...


GS

Socrates,
I unfortanatly know all too much about the situation your going through with your mother.

I suggest,if possible,to get her out ASAP.Nursing homes are not good places for anyone,let alone the elderly and the sick.

You may need to hire a lawyer.It'll be worth it.

Brian.

I'm putting my mother in an assisted living center Friday. She is dieing of liver cancer and requires 24/7 care. It wasn't an easy decision, but the care she needed was beyond my ability.

It is just a hard life lesson. It is all a part of life and death. It isn't easy, but no one said it would be. It is just a temporary condition. As a friend of mine told me. You will get through it.

Rusty
We band of brothers!

[ 02-13-2003, 18:53: Message edited by: Rusty ]

Socrates, Rusty,
You have my empathy and sympathy. My mother, currently visiting, is a cancer survivor, and there is NO TELLING how that level of "primal" emotional shock will come out.

Bright blessing to your families
jeffe

Thanks all for your comments and help.

Brian: sounds like you've been through this one.
What steps did you take? Conservatorship?

Rusty: The home is a private home, with two live in nurses. About 4-6 people are there.

My mother had a tumor on her brain stem removed, and in getting rid of the cancer, it affected her short term memory, and, is currently affecting her motor skills. It requires someone my size, at least, to move her around, get her up, etc.

She likes one of the ladies that works with her, quite a bit, and, while a very nice facility, the nicest my mothers' lawyer has been to, I still don't know what to do.

Her room is very small, but, faces on the backyard, with a sliding glass door, and, it's very pretty.

My stepfather is not strong enough to move her sometimes, and, she has a problem sleeping.

At least it's in a nicer area then where her home is.

It's funny how things seem to happen. I'm also having problems with my health, longtime flu, or bronchitis, and, my favorite fish, a puffer that would eat out of my hand, just had a stroke, and died.

That sort of feels like a straw on a camel, if you get my drift...


GS

Socrates,
It was my grandparents who were in the rest home.We (as in my father and I),could have taken them out at any time,exsept we couldn't physicaly move either of them once they'd be at home.Couldn't find anyone willing to be payed to take care of them at home either.Have two aunts that could have helped fine but were of the opinion "they have money-why should we help?".

My grandmother had very advanced diabetes,and was blind from it.As you may or may not know,diabetics need to have exercise.Well,the folks at the rest home knew this but were "too busy" to do so,and she sat there for two months before her heart exploded.Grandpa went a year and two months later.

Sounds like your setup,is much better.This was a "rest home" as in the nurses sit around and rest.About 100 paitents living there and maybe 6 nurses,all of whom seemed to be doing paper work no matter what time of the day I was there.

Brian.

Sounds horrible, Brian.

It really was.I'm no health inspector,but I saw many things in the first 10 minutes I was there,that'd close down any hosptial,care center,bussiness,resturant or the corner market so fast it'd make your head spin.

Now,I understood that the nures's were far out numbered by paitents,and that it might take them a little while to get to things.By a "little while" I mean a few minutes.

Well,I saw folks sitting in the "entertainment room" in their own feices for HOURS.Yeah,they were informed of it too and just blew it off.

The place got even WORSE after my grandparents passed away,if you can belive that.Finaly a bunch of folks wrote some nasty letters to some sort of board that over-sees that stuff,and they came in and did the first inspection that had happened in a lllonnnngggg time.They were promptly shut down.

Futhermore,they were scamming Medicare through the ying-yang.On Medicare,if you are elderly and go to the hospital and need care which can't be provided at home,you are given a room at the rest home for X-amount of days.Well,when a paitent on Medical would have to go to the hospital for something (frequent,of course),they'd take them out of their room,stick them in the Medicare room,and still charge the paitent $125 per day for their other bed.Yeah,I didn't belive it either,till they did it with my grandfather.My father,who doesn't take "that's just the way it is" for an answer (which was what they said),found this out.They were keeping my grandfather in a room seperate from his wife,so they could collect both Meidcare AND the $125 a day on his other bed.Dad made it REALLY clear what would happen if Gramps wasn't moved back to the bed he was paying $125 for,and they got right to it.

Also found some cases where elderly paitents were cohersed to do things they didn't want,and nurses getting paid to give false testimony in court.

That place was a racket like none other and I'm just pleased as punch that it was closed down.Should I ever win the lotto or come into a large amount of cash,I'll buy the building and have the place burnt to the ground.There's so much evil stuff that happened there that it has to be cursed somehow.

Of course,ANOTHER resthome went in the same building and I wouldn't be suprised if the same BS is going down in there.

Let me also point out that I have visited other folks in other resthomes which were ran superbly.The smaller places,where you only have 2-3 paitents per nurse,are almost always ran well as the nurse doesn't have a burden.When you have 30-40 paitents per nurse,they get burnt out the first few days and after that,just don't give a damn.

And there lies the problem folks-not giving a damn.

Brian.

Finally got the 30-06 to the range. To start with, the scope mounts had not been tightened, and I didn't notice. NOT pleased.

Wasted about 25 rounds, way off, before figuring it out, thanks to the range master.

Tightened the mounts, rezeroed the scope, and align bored the rifle. Put the bolt back in,
and using 150 grain hardball, it shoots one, nice, ragged, hole, if I do my part. This at 50 yards, put it about an inch high, and will adjust at 100, but I ran out of daylight at the range.
Not a rifle to sell.


Anyone have ballistics on 150 grain gi ball ammo velocity?

S

Hey I might be looking at yhis wrong but if you reload you need all the differnt calibers that you can aford its just that simple

Mein Gott! What has NEED got to do with anything???

Socrates,
I see you're still 'deciding on which one to buy'.

I'm surprised no one remembers you going 'troll style crazy' about 18 months ago on the subject of self defence firearms I beleive.

You want a 375 or 458 to handle trouble in the gym, from gangs now?

Mate, no more sob stories, just buy a rifle and tell us how you go. You can always sell it.

Karl.

I'm not deciding which ones to buy, just what order.

Karl, I think you better read my post a bit more carefully. Kalifornia is being invaded. What is considered 'white' are now the minority, thanks to massive illegal immigration. Some of these people are gangsters, and killers, and I'm trying to illuminate that issue, one our liberal politicans sweep under the rug, as they slowly make gun ownership in this state as close to impossible as they can, leaving many people in a defenseless situation, relying on police that are out gunned, out manned, and pull out of confrontation with the group, for self-preservation.The police leave the population to fend for themselves, and then are tried in a court system where they are prosecuted by news cameras, as they try and defend their homes, and love ones.

I realize oz isn't quite like that...
Oh, that's right, you can't own handguns...

Anyway, thanks to Rusty, Brian, and Jeff, for helping, through posting their own experiences, one that really blindsided me.

Your testimony made it evident that the current situation could be much worse.

GS