Has anyone heard of the 416-404? I have come across a nice rifle chambered in this caliber but have not been able to locate loading data. The owner says that they have dies and loading data but I was wondering if anyone has information about the round. From my initial contact with the seller they stated that it is a 404 jeffery necked down to 416 diameter.

I plan on reloading for the rifle but I would prefer to buy a 416 rigby or 404 jeffery. Unfortunately there isn't much available other than the CZ or Ruger rifles in those calibers under $3,000.

Any opinions or information would be welcomed.

Thanks,

Scot

That could be the ".416 Tatanka" designed by a guy named "Bo."
404 Jeffery necked from .423 to .416 and the shoulder moved forward 0.196".
Others have done similar and called it as you have.
You can find it at: www.ammoguide.com

Of course this would be similar to a .416 Dakota without the "improvement" of a sharper shoulder.

Should be near identical to .416 Dakota, and lots of handloading data for that one is published, like in the Barnes manual, and in Saeed's reloading pages, IIRC. Start with .416 Dakota starting loads and work up.

Perhaps it's a 416 Rigby necked up to .423 caliber? Just guessing, but in my mind that would make more sense as far as cartridge performance is concerned.

Regards,

Chuck

It has to be a 404 necked down to 416, it is really hard to work a 416 rugby sized cartridge in a stnd mauser 98 action. That is a nice rifle you are looking at for a great price, I know 404 jeffery rounds can be hard to get to feed right so I'd make sure it can feed. I'm heading down to Greenwich tomorrow for a gun show and I think the rifle might be there, I'll take a look at her for you if you want.

The 416-404 is a 404 case necked down to a 416 caliber from 425. I thought I had invented this beauty, but the credit goes to Ken Howell and it is properly a 416 Howell.

It will give performance on a par with the 404 Jeff and if you are interested I can tell you where you can get dies.

It can be easily used in a standard Mauser action and is adequate for all African game. It's only advantage over the 404 Jeff is that overall cartridge length is more easily accommodated in the standard Mauser length and there are a bunch of good bullets available for it.

My shoots 400gr bullets to just over 2300fps.

This is shot of the elephant which I took with my 416/404:

Kudude,
I see that the humidity of Tallahassee has taken its toll over the years.
I lived there for 4 years but escaped with my sanity.

You are on the loose a bit:
The .416 Howell has a 2.500" case length.
Similar to a .416/404 Dakota copycat.

.425" is not the diameter of the bullet for the 404 Jeffery.
"425" is nomenclature for the 425 WR with .435" bullet, or the upstarts such as the "425 Express," a neck-up of the 300 Winmag that uses a .423-caliber bullet.

CIP may show a bullet diameter of .422" and a barrel groove diameter of .424" for the 404 Rimless Nitro Express (Jeffery), so don't feel bad.
.423-caliber is the bullet diameter we go by now for the 404 Jeffery.

The .416 Tatanka was submitted to ammoguide.com by
"Bo Kromann Nielsen (Max)."

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=249

It is 2.890" in case length.
That is what happens when you neck down the 2.875" 404 Jeffery to .416.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
That could be the ".416 Tatanka" designed by a guy named "Bo."
404 Jeffery necked from .423 to .416 and the shoulder moved forward 0.196".
Others have done similar and called it as you have.

Of course this would be similar to a .416 Dakota without the "improvement" of a sharper shoulder.

Should be near identical to .416 Dakota, and lots of handloading data for that one is published, like in the Barnes manual, and in Saeed's reloading pages, IIRC. Start with .416 Dakota starting loads and work up.

Read about a version that Gil van Horn did 20+ yrs ago, he did a 416 & 423 vH, the latter simply an improved 404 Jeffery, the former a necked down & improved 404. I liked the look of them. Still do, something about nothing new & under the sun comes to mind. Huh, Wildcatters!
Steve

Yes, Gil Van Horn did everything, whether it had been done before or not, and then some!

I am starting a file on Gil Van Horn, and the Howell book has some of his stuff too.
Search and you will find we have discussed here before the ".423 Van Horn Nitro" (2.575") and the ".423 Van Horn," which is the near-full-length (2.850") "404 Jeffery Improved," which is a total oxymoron. A standard 404 Jeffery could be loaded as wildly hot as the 423 Van Horn was.

Yes, Gill Van Horn is the epitome of Obsessive-Compulsive Wildcatter and deserves Sainthood in The Faith.

We are trying to get member .366torque to finish writing the biography of Gil Van Horn, complete with catalog of his work (to include both cartridges and master riflesmithery that Van Horn apprentice Ryan Breeding is so heavily influenced by), but he says it is going to look like the Encyclopedia Brittanica, so don't rush him.

There is a sweet appeal to a .416/404 Jeffery neck-up with un-improved shoulder and long neck. That is the .416 Tatanka.
Had to simply move the shoulder forward a wee bit to keep the skinnier neck in proportion.

Did Gil Van Horn ever trifled with anything so simple, or un-improved?
Gil was still kicking butt, last I heard, in his eighties.