Who makes a nice stainless / laminate wood
416 Rem , with out going to a custom build ?

Thanks , Bob

I think they call that a 416 ruger.

If you want a long magnum action then get the 416Rigby. CZ does laminates.

Thanks , It seems the ruger is a nice choice
for the money , but where did that nice 1/4
rib design go ?

Why stainless?

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
Why stainless?

I just perfer the looks of stainless , plus
it's weather resistance properties .

Winchester made a run of stainless/wood 416Rem. mod 70's some years ago. New Haven guns. They were going for about 2X of the blued version at the time however the wood was a notch up in the figure department.
I do not think many were produced. The last one I saw that was for sale was $2,500.00.
If you can be patient you might find one at Guns International etc.

The thing is you could go out and buy a blued Winchester 70 Safari Express in .416RM, and the gun doesn't need a thing; CRF, barrel band, dual cross-bolts in the stock, has iron sights, if that's your thing.

I just bought one in .375H&H and I think it's about the best thing going dollar-for-dollar.

No need for a so-called 'custom' unless appearance is more important than function to you. Cuz you will not improve the build or function on one of these new M70's.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
The thing is you could go out and buy a blued Winchester 70 Safari Express in .416RM, and the gun doesn't need a thing; CRF, barrel band, dual cross-bolts in the stock, has iron sights, if that's your thing.

I just bought one in .375H&H and I think it's about the best thing going dollar-for-dollar.

No need for a so-called 'custom' unless appearance is more important than function to you. Cuz you will not improve the build or function on one of these new M70's.

-

How difficult would it be to rechamber in 416 Rigby?

Will the magazine handle the Rigby?

Bolt face and rails would need to be-opened up.
Also, and important, the barrel would need to be set back a couple of threadings or more.

Question: does it matter that the 416Rem has a .447" neck chamber but the .416Rigby is rated at .4461"? Would that thousandth of an inch be a potential for inaccuracy, or would it be an extra safety buffer, otherwise insignificant?

^ The .416Rigby is a great cartridge, but so is the .416Remington. No need to change it at all.

Besides, if you want a rifle chambered in .416 Rigby there's lots available, so why mess up a M70 Safari Express?

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
^ The .416Rigby is a great cartridge, but so is the .416Remington. No need to change it at all.

Besides, if you want a rifle chambered in .416 Rigby there's lots available, so why mess up a M70 Safari Express?

I like the extra 200fps of the Rigby, and I'm always tempted by the prices of the 416Ruger at the lower ballistics. Nevertheless, the Win M70 is a great rifle and I'm glad that they do at least one in a .416" calibre.

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
The thing is you could go out and buy a blued Winchester 70 Safari Express in .416RM, and the gun doesn't need a thing; CRF, barrel band, dual cross-bolts in the stock, has iron sights, if that's your thing.

I just bought one in .375H&H and I think it's about the best thing going dollar-for-dollar.


No need for a so-called 'custom' unless appearance is more important than function to you. Cuz you will not improve the build or function on one of these new M70's.

Yes , and I agree , the mod 70 win is a great rifle. Appearance is not more important , but
equaly so . Who said , on here ; Life is to short to hunt with a ugly gun "
My problem is , I have a " limited " budget !

quote:

Originally posted by Bear Cat:

quote:

Originally posted by Demonical:
The thing is you could go out and buy a blued Winchester 70 Safari Express in .416RM, and the gun doesn't need a thing; CRF, barrel band, dual cross-bolts in the stock, has iron sights, if that's your thing.

I just bought one in .375H&H and I think it's about the best thing going dollar-for-dollar.


No need for a so-called 'custom' unless appearance is more important than function to you. Cuz you will not improve the build or function on one of these new M70's.

Yes , and I agree , the mod 70 win is a great rifle. Appearance is not more important , but
equaly so . Who said , on here ; Life is to short to hunt with a ugly gun "
My problem is , I have a " limited " budget !

If the budget is tight that makes the M70 Safari Express the perfect recommendation, because it needs nothing (except maybe a rifle sling).

I have a M70 Safari Express in 416 Rem Mag. Great gun. Out of the box the accuracy is unbelievable. My first three shots make one hole, then I start to lose my edge and things expand a bit. Excellent choice.

Buy the blue M70 416, send it off to be coated. You can even get coats that make it look like SS and are probably even more resistant. Buy a laminated stock. Otherwise no, you can't get one without going custom and even that above option is customizing a factory rifle.

I just looked at the new 416 Ruger in the Hawkeye African, and that is my idea of a sho nuff African rifle and has the quarter rib. Doesn't come in SS...

You could buy a SS ruger and have a smith add the quarter rib..

I'm glad to hear praise where praise is due. Ruger is doing something right with their 416. I didn't know that their new African 416Ruger had a quarter-rib.
For me the main adjustment would be to unscrew the new muzzle break and put the cap in place. Sight in the scope and it should be good to go. A 416 Rig in a standard length action and relatively short barrel is in the running for an ultimately practical, all-around African package.

I just received one of the new Ruger 416's African's with the wood stock and with the sissy slots removed it weighs 7# 12oz and feels mighty handy. It is very close in weight and overall feel to my 1907 vintage Jeffery 404 ! I Am looking forward to trying it out this season.

You can have a nice built rifle in .416 Rem. with a synthetic stock for under $5k. I don't think you can rechamber a .416 Rem. to a .416 Rigby, the action is too short, but I defer to the experts.

Just my personal opinions -- and by the way, my .416 Rem. is my go to rifle and default for everything. It was built by Bill Wiseman in College Station, Texas.

Find a M70 Classic Stainless, CRF, pretty nice rifles, I bought my son a LH one when he finished his 4 years in the service.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
You can have a nice built rifle in .416 Rem. with a synthetic stock for under $5k. I don't think you can rechamber a .416 Rem. to a .416 Rigby, the action is too short, but I defer to the experts.

Just my personal opinions -- and by the way, my .416 Rem. is my go to rifle and default for everything. It was built by Bill Wiseman in College Station, Texas.

The 416 Rigby does NOT clean up a 416Rem chamber. The Rem shoulder is slightly farther into the barrel so a barrel needs to be set back a couple of threads to rechamber for a 416Rigby, at least. Also, the specs on the neck differ by .001". The Rem is .001" wider than the Rigby at the case mouth. I don't know if that is a problem or not. No experience.

The payoff? You would have a cartridge with about 20 grains more powder and could expect a quantum level increase in velocities, 150-200 fps.

It would be functionally like taking a 30-06 and rechambering to a 300 WinMag, though in a bigger league. It makes the 416 into a longrange antelope gun as well as a great buffalo gun. The 416 Rigby can claim to "do it all" in ways that other calibres are dreaming. It is still within comfortable/manageable recoil limits, though it might take a little practice for those new to large-medium bores. Keep the forehead relatively erect and hold on tightly. Bullet weight for 2800fps hunting? 350 grainers.

As far as "long range", I've taken a Grant's at over 200 yards and a kongoni at somewhere between 250 and 300 yards with my .416 Rem., off of sticks. I really don't want to shoot any farther on any game with any rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
As far as "long range", I've taken a Grant's at over 200 yards and a kongoni at somewhere between 250 and 300 yards with my .416 Rem., off of sticks. I really don't want to shoot any farther on any game with any rifle.

The point is not that slower catridges can't be used effectively out to 300 yards, but adding 150-200 fps certainly helps.

^ I disagree with the need for 200 fps. No need for that, very marginal benefit IMHO.


150 yd shot, .30-06 with 200gr Nosler Partition, loaded to 2400 fps MV. Open sights, as you can see.


250 yd shot. .416RM, 400gr RN Hornady IL, loaded to 2400 fps.

I have found little to no difference in ballistics, at hunting ranges, with moderate loads. In all cartridges that I load for, I tend to limit the load to 95% of max' velocity.

The only real benefit that I see in higher velocities, is if you prefer the new 'green' mono-metal bullets. They do operate better at higher velocities.

For those of us, that still use cup & core lead bullets, moderate velocity is just fine.

I agree with Demonical. I have several 375's and 416's in both Rigby and Rem Mag. I killed my first buffalo with 416 Hoffman.
Just buy the Win. 70 Safari Express and go on down the road. It has all the bells, whistles and turn signals needed and feels good in hand. It is my understanding that the Mod 70 will be assembled in Portugal now days. I was also told by my Win. rep. that Win. would run the 7x57 for only one year. That is all hearsay but came from my Win. rep.

Nice hunting. Thanks for sharing the pictures.

I agree that 2400fps works fine for hunting. As a former bowhunter, I can appreciate for a hunter to allow for trajectories and a few inches of drop. However, an additional 400 fps, 2800 fps, still gives an advantage.

You are correct about the mono-metal bullets and the higher velocity. Woodleighs were normally limited to about 2400fps, but the new monometals don't need to worry about losing a core or overexpansion and lack of penetration. 2800 fps is about perfect for those bullets because they have guanranteed penetration and are at about the edge of their velocity where they can be expected to hold all of their petals. Win win. If they drop the petals the square flat head does massive damage, and if they hold their petals they do massive damage.

finally, the important thing is to do what you illustrate in the pictures, go hunting! All of those loads will work great.

My son's left handed M70 Classic in 416 Rem. We had the barrel shortened to 22" (his choice) and Cerakoted (also his choice), a mercury recoil reducer in the stock (improved balance) and a Decelerator recoil pad. It's a nice rifle.

^ Jeez man, take a picture of that against a lighter back ground! I can barely make out the rifle against all that black!

What's ceracote? Is it applied right over the factory wood stock?

Sorry, I suck at photography. CeraKote is a ceramic coating. Here's a link

http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/

chuck375, my bad, I suck at photography too.

But I've got a M70 Safari also, was just hoping for a better picture.

Also, what the heck is the ceracote supposed to do!?

It prevents rust, since my son wants to hunt Alaska, it's not a bad idea, as if you hunt along the coast even stainless pits there. This picture is a little better, but not much lol

The main differences between the 416 Rigby and the 416 Ruger / 416 Win Mag are that the USA designed cartridges are shorter while delivering similar power and that they are built on 1:14" twists where the 416 Rigby is 1:16.5". The 416 Weatherby, at the same length as the Rigby, has more power and a 1:14: twist.

One could argue that some are belted and some are not but twist rate is the important bit for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
The main differences between the 416 Rigby and the 416 Ruger / 416 Win Mag are that the USA designed cartridges are shorter while delivering similar power and that they are built on 1:14" twists where the 416 Rigby is 1:16.5". The 416 Weatherby, at the same length as the Rigby, has more power and a 1:14: twist.

One could argue that some are belted and some are not but twist rate is the important bit for me.

A typo? You meant Rem Mag surely?

You got that right! Typical when ones brain thinks something but the fingers type another

Hi Gerard,
I need your bullets, again.
I think the GSC HV .408/370-grain is going to be the optimum bullet for the "400 UnderKill" (400 UK), the sporting weight .408 CheyTac.
Without a doubt, there are no better bullets, when they match the desired barrel specs, than the GSC HV.
I am going to order some of these GSC HV bullets (.408/370-grain), if I can get them from the USA production.
Is Gina in Michigan?

And I'm looking forward to some 450 grain .510" GSC HV's when Michigan gets them ready.

Hi Ron,
Gina is in Michigan in Edwardsburg. I am coming over there for two weeks in June and will start practising the time zone thing a week or so beforehand.

For now, Gina will be running on an order basis, same as what we do in SA. Shelf stock will be reality when we have more capacity than demand.

I got the email response from Gina.
I wish to add the SP and FN to the order, so I bothered her with another request.
They should be as good as it gets for my needs.
I thought about designing my own bullet for the 400 UnderKill (.408 Chey Tac Sporter), but soon realized GSC had already done just what I need:

408370HV148: Hollow point, monometal copper.
408385SP144: Target bullet, solid copper.
408385FN108: FN solid, monometal copper.

One shot of HV in the chamber and a magazine full of FN loads.
That will work with either a MRC M1999 PH action or a CZ 550 Magnum.

HV nose length is 1.040", bullet length is 1.88".
.408 Chey Tac brass length is 3.040" max.
MRC PH box length is 4.005"-plus.

Maybe I could even make a jig or die to file the HV bullet nose to shorten it by .05", so it will load into the mag box of the PH action.
Or just trim the .408 Chey Tac brass short enough to allow HV loading into the magazine.

A chicken in every pot, and a 400 UnderKill in every home.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Hi Ron,
Gina is in Michigan in Edwardsburg. I am coming over there for two weeks in June and will start practising the time zone thing a week or so beforehand.

For now, Gina will be running on an order basis, same as what we do in SA. Shelf stock will be reality when we have more capacity than demand.

Edwardsburg, MI: Just on the opposite side of Indiana, due north a few hundred miles.
Practically in my backyard. Nice.