I've got to agree with whoever said it last week: a Marlin .45-70 with Garrett ammo is more painful to shoot than a .458 Lott. Mine (just finished last week!) weighs 10 lbs including scope. Held appropriately, it's very manageable. But a Marlin is unquestionably worse. I've owned a Guide Gun, and currently I've got the regular 1895. Both were more jolting and unpleasant to shoot.
There's no doubt that the Lott pushes you further back. But the .45-70s are worse, when loaded with Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo.
Pertinax
Posts: 444 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 07 November 2001
I don't pretend to be an expert on stock design; most of my shooting experience is with much less fierce kickers. But I do believe it's the stock. My current Marlin weighs 8.5 lbs with scope. If I'm not careful, I'll hit my nose with my thumb upon firing. Since it's pretty heavy, I think it must be the stock.
To be fair, I have not done things to tame the Marlin. It still wears the original thin shoulder pad. Putting a decellerator pad on it would undoubtedly help. But my point is that there are other things beyond the obvious massXvelocity math that matter here. I was a bit of a doubter, but no longer.
Pertinax
Posts: 444 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 07 November 2001
My bet is your Marlin kicks worse than my .585 Nyati. The Marlins stock was never designed for this level of recoil and good luck taming it. Shot once, dropped once sold once.-Rob
Posts: 6314 | Location: Las Vegas,NV | Registered: 10 January 2001
My 45-70 Guide Gun is a "pussycat" in recoil compared to my 1886. It at least has a piece of rubber at the end of the stock. My 86 Extra Light has a steel plate instead so I get a full pop every time I pull the trigger. However, I shoot a heavier load with the 86. I am talking about 400 grainers at around 2100 fps with a 22 in barrel. Of course, this is no where near the Lott velocity but it is still very potent on the shoulder. Have fun. Ming
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
I would rather shoot my Lott during long range sessions than my co-pilot. I shoot 400gr cast at 1600fps or so and the recoil is much worse out of the 45/70. I shoot 400gr X's at 2330fps out of my Lott and its not bad. Now 1 shot "quick draws" and they are about the same IMO. Also IMO, a light weight gun like the GG plus the stock design isnt made for comfort shooting the heavy loads. I shot some 525gr cast out of my marlin and I will never do that again.
[This message has been edited by JoelS (edited 03-07-2002).]
Posts: 204 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 06 December 2000
I will shoot my 1886 all day before I shoot one of those annoying little "guide guns". Mine has the cresent steel but plate and I shoot a 440gr LBT at 2000fps. I hate the guide guns...they are an answer to a question that should have never been asked. When I worked at a gunstore they were the most popular gun we sold, TO RETURN, and ask for their money back..."this thing kicks too much!" I would just roll my eyes, what do you expect out of a 6+lb rifle, with a straight stock? DUH! Could have bought plenty of them cheap, most with half a box or more of ammo with them!
quote:Originally posted by BigBores: I will shoot my 1886 all day before I shoot one of those annoying little "guide guns". Mine has the cresent steel but plate and I shoot a 440gr LBT at 2000fps. I hate the guide guns...they are an answer to a question that should have never been asked. When I worked at a gunstore they were the most popular gun we sold, TO RETURN, and ask for their money back..."this thing kicks too much!" I would just roll my eyes, what do you expect out of a 6+lb rifle, with a straight stock? DUH! Could have bought plenty of them cheap, most with half a box or more of ammo with them!
I absolutely love my 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70. It handles great, packs a wollup at reasonable ranges, has 4 follow up shots, is accurate as hell, and with the porting and a Pachmayr Decelerator pad it doesn't punish me any more than my .300 Weatherby.
------------------ "The Constitution of the United States shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams
Posts: 487 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 07 December 2001
I have to agree on the Marlin and recoil. I am sure if I sat down with a recoil equation that the foot-pounds yield of an 1895SS firing a Speer 400 at 1800 wouldn't be all that much, but there is something about the velocity of the recoil and the way it is spread around my face and shoulder that really gets my attention. The only think I would rank as worse would be 3-inch Magnum turkey loads in a 12-gauge pump or single shot. My .450 NE Ruger No. 1 is much, much pleasanter to shoot. So much so that the Marlin .45-70 is the rifle that finally taught me the great beauty of a pleasant cast load. So when I would get to dreading the Marlin, I would load up a pocketfull of 340-grain Lee cast slugs over 17 grains of Unique and get to know and love the Marlin all over again. The stiff loads are great for hunting, of course, but definitely grim off the bench. By the way, I had a Marlin Cowboy with the longer octagon barrel, and as it is an even lighter rifle than the SS, or atleast the weight is differently distributed, I found it stung me a bit harder yet than the 1895SS.
Posts: 16669 | Location: Las Cruces, NM | Registered: 03 June 2000
Pertinax, man you said a mouthfull quick. I shot this rifle and ended up with a headache #10 on a scale of 10, banged up finger and shoulder that is sore as if I tried to stop a truck. No thanks you on the heavy loads in the Marlin lever gun. I'll save that for the other crazy's out there in dreamland. Those that wish to shoot the big buffalo in Africa or giant bear in Alaska.
quote:Originally posted by T/Jazz: Pertinax, man you said a mouthfull quick. I shot this rifle and ended up with a headache #10 on a scale of 10, banged up finger and shoulder that is sore as if I tried to stop a truck. No thanks you on the heavy loads in the Marlin lever gun. I'll save that for the other crazy's out there in dreamland. Those that wish to shoot the big buffalo in Africa or giant bear in Alaska.
Just call me a crazy out here in dreamland!
------------------ "The Constitution of the United States shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samuel Adams
Posts: 487 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 07 December 2001
I built a "TRAPPER" out of an old 1895 45-70 a few years before any of these new shorties came out, with the added recoil pad it wasn't bad at all under hunting conditions, and it only had a 16" barrel and magazine tube. I used it on a sling while fishing in Alaska, and for a camp gun. It got your attention when you cut it loose, but did the job.
It is one thing to build a small rifle that is chambered for a big round,for a special purpose, knowing up front it will be a little ornary, but quite another to buy one hopeing it wont kick! It has always amazed me why people will buy a 336, or mod 94 30-30 for their kid, or wife's first rifle. That is the absolutely worse choice a person can make with a novice. All Lever actions kick like mules for the caliber they are chambered for. A good bolt action chambered for 308, or 270 is far less punishing.
------------------ ..Mac >>>===(x)===> also DUGABOY1 DUGABOY DESIGNS Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art
Posts: 14634 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: 08 June 2000
I know you guys are joking about thinking the Guide Gun is a stomper right? If you do there is something bad wrong with either you or your guns. Have you even shot one of them? I am beginning to wonder. Maybe you just dreamed that you shot one and fell out of the bed and hurt yourselves. Ha Ha have a great day. Long live the Guide Gun and heavy bullet loads.
Pertinax, Yes, a heavy load shot out of my Browning 71 with the stock buttplate,(curved steel) is very tough to handle at the bench. I'm shooting a 450 Alaskan, loaded with a 400 grain Speer, ahead of 67 grains of 3031. Chronographed at 2150 fps, this actually bruises the shoulder. My solution was to use a Uncle Mikes slip on recoil pad. I call it the "Magnum Condom". Simple but reliable. Great thing about it is, you can use it on many different guns. It's fun to shoot the great 458. Roger
Posts: 4428 | Location: Queen Creek , Az. | Registered: 04 July 2000
Glad to hear that you had the same experience with your 71. However, those magnum recoil condoms don't look very good at the range, don't you think? Regardless, I think putting a piece of rubber at the end of a 71 or a 86 does not look very good either. I guess that we will have to get used to the steel plate on those 71s and 86s. Later. Ming
Posts: 1002 | Location: Midwest USA | Registered: 01 September 2001
