I would be very interested to hear if anybody has experience with these bullets?
There is a local manufacturer who makes them in a variety of calibers but with a different description to the North Fork, same principle though.

I have always felt that the 375 in soft, irrespective of make, was marginal on Buff and these seem to make a lot of sense. Chance of complete pass through is avoided, but bullet opens up slightly and the penetration is there.

Initial tests on wet pack are encouraging. Penetrates twice as deep as a Norma Oryx and opens up to about .400.
The plan is use them on a Giraffe bull this season.

I had some loaded when hunting Buff in Zim, 2018. I shot a Buff with Barnes TSX 300 gns ( several shots ) and it was down and dead. At that point I hadn't shot any North Fork Cup Point 300 gns and said to my PH I wanted to test them. He said put a shot into the Buff from behind and angle into the frontal area. From about 10 yards I shot into one side of the rump. I had no idea where the bullet went or how far but that evening in camp the butchery boys brought my recovered bullet to me, saying they recovered it inside the chest area. I was favourably impressed. I had an accurate load with this bullet shooting close to the same POI as my 300 gn bullets. I'm taking a few loads with 300 gn CPS to Zim this year.

Here is the recovered bullet. Second from left.

Snav,
I have killed one mature Cape Buffalo each with a 375H&H, 300 gr. NF CPS and CEB Solid for the first shot at 2,500fps MV at close range. Each were one shot kills on bulls facing me.

In both cases the bullets went into the chest, went straight to and through the top of the heart and continued straight, deep into the gut. The bulls went less than 30 yds and went down dead. The CEB bullet did not expand and the NF expanded to about .385 cal.

These bullets are outstanding. Their design, especially their profile and wide flat meplat of about 67% of bullet diameter, makes them penetrate straight and deep and cut a good wound channel that does not collapse behind the bullet. ( I can explain how they do this if you are like.)

People who don't like solids for the first bullets have probably never seen these innovative bullets work. They have probably always used/seen round nose solids perform, which have been the standard "go to" bullet for decades and were always unreliable solids on buffalo.

The original R&D on these bullet was exhaustive, including about 100 buffalo in Australia and Africa and countless rounds in wet pack tests. ( I have no connection with the designers or sellers of these bullets.)

The CEB Raptor bullet is also a very impressive killer. I had three One shot dead-right-there kills with them with a 500-110 Win. at 40 yds. Each buffalo took a step or two and collapsed.

I have not used the NF Expanding bullet, but reportedly it is a bit tougher than the Swift A-Frame.

I have never had a solid bullet pass through with either NF solid, a CEB solid, a Peregrin bushMaster semi expanding or a hard cast (BN@22) lead solid on cape buffalo. I think that the issue about a solid bullet passing through and hitting another buffalo standing behind the target buffalo, is over rated. I just wait till the buffalo moves, or the good ol' PH finds me another one.

Also, I agree that the 375 is little on the light side for buffalo.
It's like using a 308 on moose. It work alright but they go a ways first. I find it very satisfying to hit cape buffalo hard with a good bullet in a big bore.

Snav, I would be very interested in trying some solids from "your local manufacturer", Please tell me his contact info. I am going for buffalo in August. I will be using Peregrine bushmasters on them in a 470 NE.

Thanks and good hunting,

brian

Thanks for the picture and the hunt reports.

I really like the concept of the Expanding-CPS. For my limited visibility area in Alaska, I have purchased .458 325 grain for use in 45-70, 350 grain for 458 Winchester and 458 Lott, 200 & 225 grain for .358 caliber, and may purchase some 200 grain for .338 use. If they offered them in a 270 grain for the .375, I would have some.

I have stopped using solids on buffalo years ago.

Ever since I used the original Barnes X.

After that I made my own CNC turned copper hollow points.

Never looked back, and they penetrate buffalo from one end to the other.

The H/H is a bit more anemic than your 375/404 though.... Your 300gr is going at 2800fps? Thats a massive difference!

I field tested the cup point, on a number of buffalo, hippo and Plainsgame some years ago for Mike, before he sold out, IMO they are the perfect buffalo bullet and they work fine on Plains game, they could be described as a an expanding solid. I don't think the new owners changed that bullet at all...I got what Kings picture shows plus a bit more expansion in most cases and always straight line penetration and bone smashing power..If I was told I could only pick one bullet in my big bores for everything from the 9.3 on up it would be my choice.
I don't recall how many head of game I shot and sent Mike bullets but it was in escess of 25 or 30 head and maybe a dozen recovered bullets..I could send you pictures to your email if needed.

They do work in the 9.3x62, 375 H&H, 416 Rem, 404, 470 and the faster you push them the better as to
just a tad more expansion depending on the depth of the tapered cup.

Snav,

I was the importer and distributor on North Fork in South Africa for some time. I did quite a bit of wet pack testing (a fairly imperfect but very useful process) and also used the 300gr and 350gr in 375 H&H on some buffalo hunts. I do have details of the penetration achieved relative to other projectiles in the wet-pack testing, which I will access and share if I get a chance. My rifle shot the SS, CPS and FPS in 300gr together into about 1 MOA in 300gr. In 350gr the CPS seemed to shoot a bit lower, possibly because of the lower starting muzzle velocity and I would guess the drag of the cup?, but groups were about 1.5 MOA for all three designs together.

I do think you may find value in testing the design you intend to use relative to the bonded softs and solid shank designs that most would recommend for DG, like North Fork, A-Frame, Rhino etc., or if that is your preferred flavour the mono design you may prefer. These would be my choices for a first shot on buffalo, not the Norma Oryx. Even on the Norma website the pictures in the description of the 300gr Oryx 375 H&H have a moose, deer and a boar, not a buffalo as the Woodleigh loads do. We can argue about whether a mature moose is larger than a buffalo, but an Oryx would not be my choice.

Bear in mind that penetration of the NF CPS is significant and this is not a bullet that I would consider appropriate for a first shot in a herd situation without making very sure that pass throughs will not be likely to hit other animals. I do not think that the chance of a complete pass through is avoided. Certainly less than with a similar solid, but very high risk in my opinion. I never personally recovered a CPS; they penetrated and exited mature buffalo bulls from slightly raking shots. Kevin Thomas (in conversation and writing in Man Magnum) recounted a hunt with a client as I recall shooting a 416 Ruger loaded with 400gr CPS which he used on elephant cows with a high degree of success, but this is NOT something that I would recommend. I am fairly certain that I recall this correctly, but possibly the cartridge is not as I remember.

Others reported similar results with regard to penetration. Projectiles that were recovered of which I received photgraphs were like the marketing pictures and had generally lost less of the "mushroom" than the bullet in the picture of 30.06king did, but that would all depend on impact velocity, calibre, what was struck etc.

I don't think one needs to over complicate the design, but there are considerations of the shape and depth of the cup, the shape of the surrounding material left on the bullet and of course the material used (both the alloy and hardness). This is not to be critical of similar designs of others, but to point out that whilst a concept and design may seem similar, an end result may be less similar and comments here may not be indicative of what you may expect to find. As others may say, your mileage may vary.

For buffalo I would carry a soft for the first shot and CPS below. If hunting dagga boys a CPS would be my choice. The NF CPS was (?is) a great design used like anything within the intended design parameters and performance. Similar concepts are certainly worth considering.

30.06king,

If you are willing to share, what is the North Fork third from the left which seems to have flattened and bent and what are the circumstances around the shot? What cartridge, range, material (or if game, where did it impact etc.).

Thanks. Sorry Snav, no intention to sidetrack this thread and your question.

quote:

Originally posted by Snav:
The H/H is a bit more anemic than your 375/404 though.... Your 300gr is going at 2800fps? Thats a massive difference!

That's what a 375 Weatherby will do!

quote:

AFRICAN LEADWOOD
posted 19 February 2023 21:46
30.06king,

If you are willing to share, what is the North Fork third from the left which seems to have flattened and bent and what are the circumstances around the shot? What cartridge, range, material (or if game, where did it impact etc.).

Leadwood,
A North Fork Soft Point, 300 gn, .375 H&H. Cape Buff. After an initial volley of Barnes TSX 300 gn bullets it was one of several shots trying to convince the Buff it was dead. He was immobile but standing. The bush screen made it difficult to see the body clearly but I was getting shots in at what I could see. The North Forks were the finishing shots. I'm not sure where the boys found the bullet. My guess would be either spine or far side ribs. The bull was about 30 yds away.

Hi African Leadwood

Sorry my post was a bit misleading.

I used the Norma Oryx as a comparison because that's I all I had loaded at the time. My very limited exposure to buff hunting is a trip to the Save valley where we were lucky enough to shoot a bull each in 5 days.
My mate however very nearly lost his due to a Swift A frame not penetrating the chest cavity on a perfect shoulder shot.

The Oryx is perfect for everything else but I certainly would dram of using it on a buffalo!!

Anytime you drag up a comparison it goes wild and the fun begins: I enjoy such post as long as you keep it clean..but the bottom line is ANY bullet can fail, any caliber can fail at any given moment, so one or two failures and most of the evidence given in these threads is I shot A buffalo and x bullet failed which of course is nonsense, but fun never the less..It can be stimulating conversation at best..or at least..

Very well said Ray.