Jameister, does that mean you are a yes man? I am refering to your handle, BTW. Germans, at least this German, strive for accuracy and precision i.e. REALITY! Americans like "CORRECTNESS". An perfect example of American thinking is "Political Correctness". The vast majority of posts on this thread are about "BULLET CORRECTNESS"!

These posts have little or NO basis in fact! If you disagree with me I have provided the reference material, which will allow to to PROVE I am wrong. I am referring to the TEXT BOOK on Machine Design! You should look up hoop stress, spring rates, etc and use this basic information to calculate the force required to extrude the various bullet types. A Manufacturing Engineering text book may be easier IF you can find data on EXTRUSION FORCES.

BTW, it is "der Vaterland" or "the Fatherland". YOU will notice the capital first letter since it is a PROPER name!

Axel

Wrong agin Axel, this is getting old, I deal with Germans daily, every day of my life, mostly Afrikaners and some actually from Germany from time to time...Also I have had more than a few conversations with some of Germanys finest gunsmiths, and as to well you know, Americans, can't you stick with the subject instead of posing your views on us, I for one find that to be totally uncalled for and certainly has nothing to do with the subject at hand and borders on name calling, the last result of a lost conversation in my opinnion....

I'm proud to be an American and we have never turned on Germany, only the reverse is true..You and your country should have remembered that in Iraq.

Simply stated you have talked yourself into a hole and can't get out of it, my advise is quite digging...Sorry you cannot see the light.

Ray, I am not sure what it is you are whining about! I have not attacked "being an American". If you IN FACT are used to dealing with Germans, as you claim you are, my stubborness should be NO BIG SURPRISE!! I meant no offense with my comments about "GERMAN AMERICANS". These individuals simply are not Germans! For the most part their families left Germany 70 to 120 years ago. They are AMERICANS NOT GERMANS. They act like AMERICANS NOT GERMANS. This is simply a fact not a critism or attack!!!!! Many people would say that my comments IS A COMPLIMENT!

I will not change my statements UNTIL someone provides proof to the contrary, which is based on analytical or empirical results. Since you deal with Germans you should understand this well!

Axel

[ 05-18-2003, 23:54: Message edited by: Axel ]

500grains, can you please explain greater detail how riflings are extruded into the bullet? I think once you UNDERSTAND this process you will see the err in your last post!

I have not critized Ray's enthicity, as I AM GERMAN. I stated the FACT that he isn't German, but an American of German descent! He has some of the German stubborness, that is for sure, but he lacks the proper cultural training to truly refine that RAW talent and make it OPTIMUM!

Now I am done wasting bandwidth with you on this topic!

Axel

Yup, Ray was right all along about hard headedness.

I suggest that you try Gerard's experiment.

First, use a wooden dowel to drive one of his GS solids down your rifle barrel. You will find it takes very little force.

Then try to do it with a Woodleigh solid. You will find it cannot be done, except with extreme pounding.

Answering my own question- Hurting the rifle with Barnes XLC worried me enough to call both Merkel and Barnes. Merkel said they regulate the 470 with Federal TB solids and that they have had no reports of barrel separation from using any kind of solids. They said they had also heard that rumor and don't beleive it. Barnes said they had also heard the rumor and were concerned enough to test their solids in doubles with some kind of strain guage stuff (beyond my limited technical expertise). They found no evidence of barrel damage.

Cherokee Ed

Axel,
I know nothing of what you speak, I was born and raised on the planet Texas, I am a Texan to the core, I claim no other heritage and because of you, I'm now working on a petetion to kick all the German immagrants out of Kerrville, and New Brunsfell, Texas including some of my no count Krout relitives, like mom and dad and that bunch!

Crap Ray! Part Two of "The Atkinson Trail" places your roots in the Scottish Highlands. I have to do a rewrite before publishing?