One fouling shot then 3 shots right where they were supposed to go at 100 yards:


300 yard sighter for windage and elevation (Pay no mind to the single small bore hole near POA).
Can anyone guess the BC of these rather blunt .423/340-grain North Fork grooved soft points?


The rifle that does these things is named "Meat," the African Sheep Rifle: McGowen 1:10" twist, stainless, 24"

According to the Speer book.

Your velocity was 2700fps.

You had a 10 inch total drop at 300 yards.

You were @3" high and @8 inches low.

The book says the BC would be @ 0,54 to 0.56

That cannot be right????

Interesting.
Quickload shows your 87.6 grains of Varget way over max PSI and around 2805 FPS.

Interesting! Be careful!

Well, thats some damn fine shooting with a BB...........JJ

NE 450 No2,
I forgot to tell you the sight height was 1.50", center of bore to center of scope. This must surely be why you are so far off.

One of the 'puter programs I have tells me this stubby little North Fork .423/340-gr SS has a BC = 0.300

Alas, I have not done a similar test with the more aerodynamic GSC .423/320-gr HV. That one will probably shoot faster and flatter and just as accurately as the North Fork.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Interesting.
Quickload shows your 87.6 grains of Varget way over max PSI and around 2805 FPS.

Interesting! Be careful!

Rusty, this is old hat revisited.
Remember that I have a McGowen barrel with magic micro-land technology with wide grooves that slugged .423 diameter by some abberration.

No signs of pressure for me.
Even with the DEADLY FAST TWIST of 1:10"!!!

You be careful and never try my load in your Lothar Walther barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by JJ_Miller:
Well, thats some damn fine shooting with a BB...........JJ

JJ,
Thanks, but a 404 Jeffery is not a BB gun.

Is the case micro-grooved as well?
112% capacity according to QL?

Now if you told me you'd have gotten this from Ray Atkinson, well, then I would believe ya!

Good job, since im waiting on one .404 , how is teh loads with .300 grain Mono bullets ? As i think that they will make the .404 be so good as they was meant to be an allrounder as they were in 1909 when it was designed.

Rusty,
No, standard case. Barrel is mega-grooved/micro-landed, 10" twist stainless McGowen.

Assume 114.6 grains gross water capacity for my unfired Norma case, and 115.7 grains gross for my cases after firing the Norma brass.

We can get the bullet length for you: 1.250" for the .423/340-gr NF grooved soft.

I took an quick measure, it is 32.6mm long the 300 grain PBP HP mono bullet.

Yeah, I see that with 87.6 grains of Varget in the case I have here right up to the neck. Even with 1.250 bullet it's 105% load.

You sure Ray didn't give this to you?

mr rigby,
You got a real sheep bullet there!
I have to think in inches, so your 300 grainer is 1.283" and must be a sleek beauty.

Let's do some calculating with AccuLoadIII and see how my McGowen magic barrel with North Fork bullets compares to the best software available for amateur internal ballisticians, and then yours ...

I have an new loading manual here, but those data are old, as they are only for the 400 grain woodleigh bullets.

Interestingly Norma load the African PH series with 450 grain bullets in the .404 at 2150 fps.

This will give an avid handloader the following bulletwieight to choose from as i know of here and now.

.300 grain

350 grain

400 grain

425 grain

and 450 grain

Now if all of these will shoot to the same POI, then its hapy hour in the woods.

I wonder what Pondoro would have said about the great classic rounds coming back as the yhave in recent years.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Yeah, I see that with 87.6 grains of Varget in the case I have here right up to the neck. Even with 1.250 bullet it's 105% load.

You sure Ray didn't give this to you?

Rusty,
It is not a 105% load with 87.6 grains of Varget. It is a less than or equal to 99% load regarding net capacity with the 340-gr NF soft in my Norma brass.

When I shake the loaded cartridges I can feel and hear the powder moving slightly.

I have discovered a problem with my use of AccuLoadIII (version 3.0.4): I cannot get it to calculate with Varget for this specific load with my chosen pressure limit of 60,000 psi. It will calculate with the faster H4895 and gives this:

My inputs:
case capacity: 115.0 grains H2O
COL: 3.554"
brass (trimmed to): 2.850"
bullet weight: 340.0 grains
bullet length: 1.250"
chosen pressure limit: 60,000 psi
barrel length: 24.00"

H4895 max charge: 84.3 grains
96% of net case capacity used
muzzle velocity = 2715 fps
pressure = 60,000 psi

3.3 grains more of the slower and small-granuled Varget Extreme should be very close to that.

Best I can do with this program that does not take into account the variations in barrel rifling (twist, land and groove widths and diameters if I could accurately measure them) or bullet bearing surface (smooth, grooved, banded, and metallurgy).

I would stake my life on this load in my rifle being 60,000 psi or less. It may not be in a rifle with an LW barrel and/or a different bullet. And my rifle is an M70 that is not limited by pressure to the old CIP standards for standard M98 Mausers, which are not too shabby anyway. Brass is surely good enough for that too, and more, and that would be the weak link. So I have no danger here with my load in my rifle.

You be careful now, ya hear?

RIP, I finally got my 340gr to play w/. I am only looking for 2600fps+/- for a PG load w/ reasonable recoil. I'm going to give Varget a try but I was thinking 83gr or so based on some loads I have done w/ 350grWoodleigh & VV150. Thoughts?

mr rigby,
I bet we could not get that wide spread of bullet weights to shoot to same POI with useful loads. You are asking a lot there!

I also would suggest anyone with a standard M98 and an LW barrel not use my loads!

And now I am frustrated in finding some problems with AccuLoadIII, my newest toy.

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
RIP, I finally got my 340gr to play w/. I am only looking for 2600fps+/- for a PG load w/ reasonable recoil. I'm going to give Varget a try but I was thinking 83gr or so based on some loads I have done w/ 350grWoodleigh & VV150. Thoughts?

Fred,
That sounds smart, as your LW barrel is probably tighter than my McGowen. At least you got the M70 part right.

BTW,
Saeed was getting slightly faster velocities than I have, with his LW barrel in a 404 Jeffery, using Varget with various bullet weights.

I am playing it safe with Ol'Meat.

Another good point we can re-emphasize with this thread:

BC of the hunting bullet is of little effect inside of 300 yards.

Trajectory of my sheep bullet with BC = 0.300:
0 yards: -1.5"
100 yards: +3.00"
200 yards: +1.49"
226 yards: zeroed 0.0"
300 yards: -7.74"

At same MV, Trajectory of bullet with BC = 0.500:
0 yards: -1.5"
100 yards: +3.00"
200 yards: +2.05"
240 yards: zeroed, 0.0"
300 yards: -5.20

With .500 instead of .300 BC, it shoots about 2.5" higher at 300 yards, and it is zeroed at 240 yards instead of 226 yards, if both are 3.00" high at 100 yards.

I guess this means I need even higher velocity to go with a higher BC, for serious African sheep and varmint hunting.

Sounds like a job for a .395 Tatanka to me. I knew I could figure a way to get this back to .395 caliber 340-grainers, daily less mythical.

Thanks RIP, maybe I'll get out this weekend?

What does Northfork recommend the impact of the 340 grain soft nose bullet? I didn't see it displayed on their site.

As I remember the owner saying that the faster you drive them past a point (I don't remember what that is) they tend to not open as much.

Couldn't you get better results at a lower velocity? Or are you just wretching it out to cause you can? I could understand that.

Rusty,
You are right. With a North Fork soft, terminal expansion increases with velocity, to a point, then decreases with higher velocities. Maximum expansion is somewhere around 2100 to 2200 fps impact velocity, IIRC, then the mushroom is folded back tighter against the solid copper shank, presenting a final state with lesser diameter from higher velocity impacts. But that North Fork bonded lead nose core will survive better than any other lead to copper bonding that I know of, for good retained weight, and good penetration after the explosive entry.

It's all still good with a North Fork.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
mr rigby,
I bet we could not get that wide spread of bullet weights to shoot to same POI with useful loads. You are asking a lot there!

I also would suggest anyone with a standard M98 and an LW barrel not use my loads!

And now I am frustrated in finding some problems with AccuLoadIII, my newest toy.

Well i figured that but the heaviest bullet with open sight, and the lightest with scope sight.

I havent thought about rocking the velocitys on the rifle, ill be following the manual and keeping within the regular velocity and pressures.

But the twist on it, thats an compeltely different matter.....

Attaboy Rusty it does sound like one of my loads, in fact old Rip ripped me for using it about 5 years ago. My how time passes...Remember the 95 grs. of IMR-4831 with a 400 gr. Woodleigh, in my 404s that rattled his shivers! and I'm still shooting thoes loads!

Everything is relitive, but hey if it works for him and he isn't getting pressure then more power to him.

Ray,
Yes boss, you da man!
I still find it easier to get 87.6 grains of the finely granulated Varget under a 404 Jeffery bullet than 95 grains of IMR-4831.

The application is approved, now its only to pay the fee for the application , get the bankaccount raided, and sending the papers down to the store . And then the 404 adventure wil lbegin.

sorry for the off topic guys.....

Mr. Rigby,
You are getting an African Sheep Rifle, and so can carry on the proud tradition of Mr. L.S. Chadwick, who used 300 grain bullets at about 2600 fps from his .404 Jeffery.

He hunted Stone Sheep in Bear Country, and so was ready for either with that load.

I do believe his world record stone sheep has stood unchallenged since 1936, still Numero Uno in Boone&Crockett Record Book.

It was taken from the Muskwa River area of British Columbia.

I would love to hunt stone sheep there with Ol' Meat.

Now to get back to the hot topic of the moment, I am afraid Ol' Meat has a worthy challenger in the form of the .375 Ruger Hawkeye African.

Canuck has proposed an "African Elk Rifle" chambered in .375 Ruger.

An excellent idea!

Rip, BB = Big Bore..............still good shooting........................JJ

JJ,
I got it. Just trying to be humorous, but I see it was about as humerous as the "funny bone" at the end of my humerus.

And thank you again, no jokes this time.

Impressive shooting with a big bore.

Now sell all those other guns and use the money to go hunting.

Who would want to go hunt Africa with a rifle like that? I vote Nay

I rember Chadwicks record, i have seen an advertising for it in an article about the .404 proving that its an versatile round.

And its still standing and no one has gotten an new one yet....

Ill see what it will be used for , with 2 scopes , one for light load and one for heavy bullets , it can be a versatile round, if teh shooter can hold the rifle, if he cant do that all rounds are useless.