How hard is it to get at least 2300 fps with a 500 gr bullet in the Lott (24" barrel)? It is getting time to get the Enfield rebarreled and it has come down to either the .458 Winny or the Lott. I would like to get 2400 fps.

WyoJoe

WyJoe,

You don't have a prayer of 2400 (or even 2300) with the Win. I've seen people with loads over 2400 in the Lott, but I'd think that 2300 is plenty fast enough.

I believe Paul H. has some direct experience with the Lott. If he doesn't post an answer, look him up with the search engine and email him.

Don

Don G.
About the best that a person can get with the .458 Win is 2150 from what I can see. What I am seriously looking at is the Lott. But if I can only get another 100 fps out of it I am asking my self if it is worth it. If I can get 2300 - 2400 I think it would be. I will be using at least a 24" barrel.

WyoJoe

WyoJoe - The .458 Lott will produce a solid 2300fps with 83gr of H-4895. Max the load to 85gr and 2400 fps is possible but you will be pushing 62,000 PSI of pressure. If you are after a solid 2400 fps at reasonable pressures, you should consider the .450 Dakota. Be prepared for a stiff recoil number....

You can easily hit 2300 with several powders and be will within safe limits. You can hit 2350, but that will be close to max pressure. Don't even think about 2400!

Steve

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WyoJoe:
Hi WyoJoe,
Another option is the 450 Ackley which will reach 3580 to 2400 fps with a 500 graqin bullet. Winchester 748 is the powder I've always used. This powder is temperature stable so wether your hunting Alaska or Africa you will still get 2380 to 2400 fps. The other advantage of 748 is that it has a lower burning temp which is very noticable. Your barrel will stay noticably cooler. In my Bruno 602 with a 25 inch barrel I reached over 2400 fps with 97 grains of 748. I've shot up to 100 which is a compressed load that the Bruno action and magazine box will let you attain. Any where between 2300 and 2400 fps will be a huge gain over any 458 Win. Your over all penetration gain would be worth the trouble. 470 Mbogo

The ultimate powder for the .458 Lott is Vihtavuori N540. It depends a little on the bullet construction, but with 89 to 90gr a 500 grainer goes 2380 f/s with no pressure problems in the hottest africa. For more details e-mail me.

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The 458 lott I had was built on an enfield action, the barrel was 21 1/2" long, but back bored .475" 1 1/2" w/ 10 1/4" ports. I considered it essentially a 20" barrel. The chamber had a long freebore, I was unable to hit the lands with a 450 gr X bullet, and they are looong bullets.

I have to check my notes, but as I recall, the load I settled on was Rem 416 brass, Hornady 500 gr soft, CCI 250 and 87 gr Reloader 15. I clocked 2280 fps.

You should have absolutely no problem hitting 2300 fps in a 24" barrel. If you really want 2400, then consider a 26" barrel, though there is no gurantee you'll hit 2400, should be very close.

Interesting that you are debating the 458 win vs lott. I sold my lott to fund a 500 Jeffrey, and got my smith started on another 458. I'd thought about another lott, but didn't have a long action available. Then I thought about using the 416 howell reamer to make a 458 with the same body, thus providing lott capacity in a 2.5" case. I just bagged on that idea and settled for a plain jane 458 win mag. I figure that for whatever I'll shoot with the 458, likely to be 350's at 2400-2500 the win mag will be enough, and if I want more power, the 500 Jeffrey will answer, and then some.

If I had just one big gun, then without a doubt the 458 lott would be about as good as you can get.

WyoJoe,
I have little doubt of your achieving 2,300 fps+ with the Lott and a 24" barrel. Just which powder will produce this velocity in your particular rifle no one can say with certainty. Some will say Vihtavuori N540 or IMR 4320 but in my Lott with a 25.5" barrel, these and 3 or 4 other powders failed to do so. RL-7 was the only powder that kept driving. I got 2,300 easily with the 500 "X" and as much as 2,500 with the 450 "X". An additional variable, in my case, was the use of molycoated bullets. I suggest you try RL-7 if other powders fail to meet your expectations.

Paul H.
I appreciate your comments. I have thought of using a 26" barrel but I have been wondering how it would be in Africa. My main hunting rifle is a .300 H&H with a 26" barrel. It fits my build great. But I was wondering how 26" would be in a dangerous game rifle.

WyoJoe

Nickudu,
I will keep in mind what you said. How is your rifle with the 25.5" in barrel? I was wondering about long barrels on DGR's.

WyoJoe

WyoJoe,

I don't think the 26" barrel will be a hindrence. I'm having my 500 Jeffrey built with a 25 1/2" barrel, that is the length the blank I got was, and I wanted some weight in the barrel! My personal feeling is, folks get too hung up on what makes the gun feel good when you carry it, or what looks good. We should always concentrate on what makes the gun shoot well, as a well placed first shot if paramount. A long barrel greatly aids in offhand shooting, you increase the moment of inertia, so the gun is more stable. If you don't like the 26" tube, it is no big deal to have it shortened. You might want to drop John Ricks a line star@olypen, he was just finishing up JJ Hacks 458 lott backup rifle. I'll drop JJ a line and see if the gun is finished, and what he thinks of it.

I'm suprised that RL 7 worked so well for Nick with the heavies, I tried it with the 450 X and got loose primer pockets, at only 2200 fps, though accuracy was very good. I did use RL 7 with 350 gr speer and hornadies, and was able to get good accuracy at 458 win mag speeds, 2400 for the speers, 2525 for the hornies. The lott pushing 350's at that speed is a sweethart, feels like a 375 H&H, and makes for outstanding medacine on the biggest of soft skinned critters.

My personaly thought is, don't go heavier then 400 gr on the X bullets, they are very long, and really gobble up the case. Seating a 450 X bullet to the canalure compared to the 500 hornady to the canalure, the 458 lott becomes a 458 win mag!

I'll e-mail you my 458 lott notes, I didn't shoot that many loads through it, but it should be of some help. Hmm, no e-mail in your profile, drop me a line and I'll send em your way.

[This message has been edited by Paul H (edited 12-06-2001).]

Paul,
There is an e-mail coming your way. I prefer long barrels but my general concern on a 26" barrel on a DGR is getting it into action quickly. I am going to have The Montana Rifleman build it. From what I hear their work is good, also their prices are reasonable and they have good turn around times.

WyoJoe

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Paul H:
[B]WyoJoe,

"Seating a 450 X bullet to the canalure compared to the 500 hornady to the canalure, the 458 lott becomes a 458 win mag!"

Paul,
If what you say is true, why can't I get more than 2,200 with the 450 "X" in the .458 Win Mag? The extra .300" of powder still results in an additional 200+ fps between the two case lengths with a given bullet.

Nick,

I dunno, but honestly I didn't play with the 450 X enough to dial it in. I tried it with RL 7 in the lott, and had blown primers, and as I recall, 2200 fps. I also tried RL 15, with a massively compressed load, and velocity as I recall was shy of 2100 fps.

I'm suprised you can push the 450 X that fast out of the win mag.

WyoJoe,
With a 26" barrel you can get more velocity than I care to print here, for fear of retaliation, curses and life threatening vocal challanges....

Getting 2350 FPS is a breeze out of that long tube with one powder and that is IMR-4320, which is the only powder that will safly get that velocity...My load was a warm 84 grs. for real power, and I shot 85 and 86 grs. but that was very warm and probably not for Africa, besides the chronograph scared me even though the case didn't seem disturbed... as is David Millers and Curt Crums, but they had short barrels for 2350....

The load I settled on was 83 grs and 84 grs of IMR-4320 and 2350 to 2400...A perfect killer.

The 458 Lott thrives on longer tubes, it is surprising to say the least. I think I'm the only one that dotes on the long pipes, at least around here...I like the balance but the lott is just as good at 2300 as it is a 2500 plus.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Ray,
Thanks for the load info. I prefer the longer barrels myself. When I had my .300 H&H built I had the gunsmith put a 26 on it. Next you will probably tell me that to properly test it I will have to blood it on cape buffalo.

WyoJoe

Paul H,
I think the moly-coating has a way of undermining all our prior "rules". While it often provides a faster and tighter shooting maximum load than was achieved with the non-coated bullets, it does so with heavier charges of the same powder or a change to a faster powder. I've found it necessary to separate all moly and non-moly loading data, even for otherwise identical component combinations.

[This message has been edited by Nickudu (edited 12-07-2001).]