Hey guys, interesting thing I'm curious about. Just got some Winchester Supreme ammunition in 375 H&H with the 300g nosler solids. So something I found interesting, especially for "high end" "expensive" safari ammo.

The rounds aren't seated all the way to the top driving band (guessing it is called that, same step as my Federal Trophy Bonded bullets have, that ammo is about 10 years old probably but the bullets are fully seated and the brass well crimped)
and in that small space, big enough for the thin edge of my pen knife, between the brass and the step in the bullet there is "debris". At first look I thought "did they paper patch these bullets". On closer look I could only come up with cream of wheat. While I have never used it in my cases I have heard of guys using it. Can't imagine what else it could be. I used the edge and tip of my pen knife (yes I know, for high end ammo I shouldn't be able to get my pen knife in there, it should be finished just as nice as the Federal stuff) to loosen it up and then hit it with a toothbrush and was able to clean most of it out, of every single round. The pieces were just too small to know for sure what they were.

Anybody have any idea? I'm sure the stuff will perform, and sure it won't damage the gun. I'm disappointed in the "finish" of the ammo but really I'm just curious about it.

Red

tumbling media?

That or maybe some styrofoam packing or something like that is possible. I dont think any CoW though. I have seen some white buffer material come through the end crimp on the older Winchester SuperX high brass shotgun shells.

Add a little milk, butter and brown sugar and find out.

delloro I thought tumbling media might be it too, looks like finer grain than what I use. I just couldn't figure why there'd be tumbler media in a loaded round. It's not like it was on one, it was on every single round. I guess I could take pictures of the other box (I opened it and it was same way) if I'm really that curious.

Thanks guys.

Red

I know the rounds are expensive, but why don't you take one apart, then we will all know for sure what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by TexKD:
That or maybe some styrofoam packing or something like that is possible. I dont think any CoW though. I have seen some white buffer material come through the end crimp on the older Winchester SuperX high brass shotgun shells.

"Grex."

Grex?

Hey Impala, I would take one apart, easy enough to put it back together I have dies, but I would have no way of identifying the stuff so no point in doing that.

Showed my stepfather tonight, he was surprised too, agreed they'd probably perform fine but surprising in such expensive ammo. I mean you figure the high end stuff is done by hand versus mass machine made right, with new brass. so what would they need to tumble it for or use anything else?

I made a call to winchester to ask them too. Just seems odd.

Red

Hey guys, maybe a visual would help you.

Your ammo is expensive because it uses premium bullets, special plated cases and is of very limited production; economy of scale is real. The material noted is tumbling media as others guessed. It is not at all uncommon to tumble loaded factory ammo prior to packaging to remove any oil etc. It doesn't take much time to deposit fine material from the outside.

I've loaded Grex, COW, kapok et al for decades and don't remember any ever stuck in the bullet crimping groove - certainly not every cartridge. It came from outside the case.


.

quote:

Originally posted by TX Nimrod:
Your ammo is expensive because it uses premium bullets, special plated cases and is of very limited production; economy of scale is real. The material noted is tumbling media as others guessed. It is not at all uncommon to tumble loaded factory ammo prior to packaging to remove any oil etc. It doesn't take much time to deposit fine material from the outside.

I've loaded Grex, COW, kapok et al for decades and don't remember any ever stuck in the bullet crimping groove - certainly not every cartridge. It came from outside the case.


.

Surely above is the only explanation.
And the ammo was not "handloaded," it was mass produced by machines.
Probably has ball powder.
Why don't you pull a bullet and see that there is nothing inside but ball powder?

Shake one with your hand close to your ear and see if you feel and hear the ball powder moving inside the case.
No inert filler.
Certainly not a granular one that would mix with the powder.
The Grex in a shotgun load works in the shot area as a buffer and it is separated from the powder by a cup and wad, gas seal, etc.

Use a tooth brush to clean out the tumbling media, then seal that space with a better crimp than shown in photo.
It is just a sloppy factory load, over priced.
Better to load your own.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
Grex?

that's what winchester uses to buffer shotgun loads. looks like white cream of wheat.

I actually loaded up 60 rounds a few weeks ago, but these bullets are 69 for 25, I figured for the price I got this for it was a win win, and I'm sure they'll shoot fine, with that shoulder on them a crimp isn't strictly needed to keep them from getting pushed into the case under recoil. Like I said, just an odd thing to find since I've never seen it before and would have expected different.

I thought about seating them a bit more and crimping a little better but not sure it's a big enough deal to make it worth the trouble. My goal over Christmas vacation is to churn out pistol rounds

Thanks guys, learn something new every day.

Red

The crimp also keeps the edge of the case neck from sticking out and catching on to the chamber edge when feeding-in other words the crimp accomplishes a smoother profile for feeding.That large bullet band does not make a smooth feeding round,IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Dago Red:
delloro I thought tumbling media might be it too, looks like finer grain than what I use. I just couldn't figure why there'd be tumbler media in a loaded round. It's not like it was on one, it was on every single round. I guess I could take pictures of the other box (I opened it and it was same way) if I'm really that curious.

Thanks guys.

Red

Because tumbling of the rounds is the last step before packaging.
Yes Virginia, the factories tumble live ammo.