Jeffeosso,



The difference is 11.5 grains. I suspect it has something to do with 'luck of the draw'. Both are Bertram cases and there is a significant difference in capacities among the cases. I measured a few more cases and the range on the 500 AHR is 159.2 to 162.3. The 500 Jeffery ranged from the 149.9 up to 152.4. Personally, I figured there would be a 7 to 8 grain difference due to the neck, evidently the shoulder angle change plays a larger role that I thought.



Going to measure up a few more, as I am bored.



Was also talking with a friend of mine and it appears the thirty-seven 460 WM and 500 A Square cases I have are much heavier walled than typical. He told me his cases (Norma) measured 142gr for the 460 Weatherby and 146.5 gr for the 500 A Square. I asked him to section one of each, he agreed. This is what we discovered.



My cases are ~ 0.04" thick just forward of the case head, his are ~ 0.026". Measurement taken just forward of the radius which blends the body of the case into the case head bulkhead.

Further my cases measure ~ 0.018" to 0.019" thick at the shoulder. His cases measured ~ 0.0085" - 0.009"! He also told me he had to be VERY careful crimping bullets due to shoulder crushing. He also told me that he has experienced crushed shoulders due to recoil with the Weatherby. No wonder I said, since his cases are TIN FOIL!



So a mystery is solved, for me anyway. I must have the only NORMAL wall thickness 460 Weatherby Magnum brass on earth , based upon all the case volumes I have heard others quote.



Scott

Scott--Could you post side by side picture of your and his sectioned cases.We are dicussing WEA mishaps on another
forum and that pic might be a help..Ed.

Thank you Scott for that list.

Thank you Savage99 for that link.

All of the numbers do have to be taken with a grain of salt, as pointed out, due to manufacturer and lot variations, etc.

My 500 A2 brass made from 460 Wby brass is closer to 150 grains than 140, etc.

The link above that showed the list of water capacities doesn't specify brass make. They did list 94 grains for the 375 H&H, same as my RP brass, but W-W Super brass in 375 H&H holds 97 grains of water; they showed 133 grains for the 378 Wby, and I got 137 grains when I measured. Different brass lot. And so on.

Well, it is helpful for comparing the specific brass one has on hand for the job at hand.

Ron,

No problem. My 460 Weatherby brass is Weatherby brass too. I bought two boxes back around 1988 from a gun shop in Indiana (cannot remember the name, but it was a big place on US 30 out in the middle of nowhere). These boxes were ancient at the time I bought them, too. I fired them off in a MkV 460 Weatherby I had at the time. I kept the brass and lost the rifle (no big loss either I might add). Later I used this brass to form 500 A Square cases for a rifle I had in that chambering. Alas, I no longer own the 500 A Square either, sold it to some gentleman from Missouri. I have never believed the case volumes being posted by others and/or the Barnes manual for the big Weatherby magnums based upon these cases. After the discussions/revelations this afternoon I now understand that I evidently have some freakish antique brass!

How many reloads can you get out of that tin foil brass, by the way? My friend told me he has to throw his out after only 4 or 5! I have loaded some of my cases over 25 times! I don't load sissy loads either.

Ed,

I do not think he has a digital camera. I will see what I can do though. Did not realize it is that big of a deal. Tin foil brass, over engineered locking lugs, over the top stock lines, etc . . . just seems to say WEATHERBY to me.

Scott

Scott-Hope you can get a pic of them side by side.If not
I will buy one of each, thick and thin, sectioned for my
research.Especially one of your thick ones.Were the
thick ones made by Norma also??.
This research affects the fellows I am helping, who
are making 550 MAG also, who really
want the most life from their brass.And I want to try
to help them get the best.Ed

Ed,

If all you want is maximum case life the answer is easy and well understood as far back as the 1880's!

Thicker brass loaded to moderate pressures will last FOREVER! In my experience, a case with the following thicknesses will last at least 20 reloads in a Mauser style bolt action rifle when loaded to no more than 60,000 psi.

Shoulder thickness - 0.018" minimum
Base thickness - 0.038" minimum (area just forward of the case head blend radius)
Case head bulkhead - 0.195" minimum

Works for me, anyway.

Scott

Scott-Yes I know that.I have built that and better,
and tested for couple thousand of rounds.My wildcat
458HE I built has a
base of .230, which is strong and the belt headspace
of .235 so that belt don't get expanded out from firing.
The sidewalls ahead of belt is .045 and stretches very slowly and uniformly.I have cases that have been fired
a hundred time with moderate 350 gr loads,
Wea cases I have sectioned were thinner based and belt was up on the side .And the sides were thin.That is why I want to see what you have in
a Wea case that is built to what I think is right.Like you describe.I still would like to see one, even if it is only a picture of your thick one sectioned.Ed.