A friend and I may make a trip to Africa next year. He does not have a rifle for buffalo so I may loan him a Ruger M77 African in .375 Ruger. I have only killed one buffalo, and used a .458 Lott and 500 gr. Barnes TSX bullet. I have used the 300 gr. TSX in my .375 H&H for croc, hippo, and some plains game and have been happy with it. I am not able to find more Barnes bullets, but have a lot of 300 gr. Nosler partitions. Is there any reason not to load some of the Noslers for him to use on buffalo? (I will also work up a load for some Hornady 300 gr. solids.) I would like to hear from hunters who actually used the Nosler partition on buffalo. Thanks.

Ive used that combo more than a few times, and it works as good as anything else as far as I can tell if you stick it in the right spot, I think a Hippo can absorb more bullets than a buffalo for the most part, and you seemed satisfied with the 375 on them..Im also a believer in solids on buffalo, elephant and Hippo, at least for the second follow up shots, and a 375 in the right spot is as deadly as a 577 in that same spot..

Ray:

Thanks for the reply. Yes, the .375 H&H with the Barnes TSX killed a hippo and a croc instantly. I would load the same bullet for buffalo in the .375 Ruger but can't find any now. I will load Nosler partitions and Hornady solids for my friend to use on a buffalo. I know bullet placement is the most important thing.

Don't know where you're located but Grafs has 300 grain TSXs.

I just got done rereading Dr. Kevin Robertson’s Perfect Shot II.

He has seen and killed a lot of Buffalo, and he specifically discourages the use of the Partition on Buffalo. Pg30-31.

Reason being too rapid lose in momentum and inertia (weight) from rapidly loosing the front half.

He shows a picture of a 375, 300 grain Nosler Partition perfectly expanded but with no front core.

I do not agree with everything in his books, but experience cannot be denied and food fir thought.

Now, someone else may say, “Dr, perfect looking mushroom and the bullet was recovered. Thus, we can assume the buff died efficiently.”

I have taken at least 60+ Australia water buff on several trips using 270gr. and 300 gr. old style Nosler partitions made of brass tubing and machined relief belt in a 375 H&H. My shots were most likely less than Kevin Robinson's perfect shot. Many required a follow up shot or two for quick dispatch as we were culling.

Saaed has the most experience with his 375/404 on African buff using his own manufactured monometal bullets. Your 375 Ruger should do very well using store bought partitions.

Geoff

They will work, no question about it.

Just make sure of your place.

I made over 1,700 375 300 grain bullets last year, and just discovered a week ago that all have gone!!

I am traveling a bit in the summer, and next safari is end of September, so started making some two days ago.

Got 11 bulls last year.

We look forward to this years hunt too.

Best thing to do is load them at 2400 to 2500 max, and Kevin himself made that statement as I recall and it works. Hell the 375 H&H has killed more DG than any of the big bores out there.

My all time favorite 375 bullet was the 350 gr Woodleih PP or RN and in solids, they worked like a 416 as far as I could tell..but I must confess prejudice as I had a hand in developing that bullet with Geoff..and I never had a Nosler 300 gr. go bad or fail, I suggest they pushed them too fast, thats always a recipe for failure.

I have never found Nosler Partitions to be a poor choice

bTW, I have seen many monolithics blow off the front half, its rather common in a lot of our best bullets, that front half does a lot of damage and the rear goes out the off side..Lots of European bullets are designed to do such..Many of Saeeds hand made bullets do just that, its not a failure, its an option in many cases..

I am going to try to find an accurate load at about 2400 fps for the Nosler partitions, as I have a lot of them. If I can't get an accurate load, maybe I can find some 300 gr. Barnes bullets. They are starting to show up in this area (I live within 100 miles of the plant). The only 300 gr. Barnes bullet I recovered was from a shoulder shot on a brown bear. One petal broke off but the bear went down instantly and could not move.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
bTW, I have seen many monolithics blow off the front half, its rather common in a lot of our best bullets, that front half does a lot of damage and the rear goes out the off side..Lots of European bullets are designed to do such..Many of Saeeds hand made bullets do just that, its not a failure, its an option in many cases..

Would you not agree loosing the 4 petals on a Branes is still retaining a lot more weight and momentum than a bullet loosing what 20 percent in the nose.

Hey, if it works. I have not done it, but the most read Doctor of Veterinary Medicine who is a respected PH with dangerous game does not recommend them ought to make anyone pause.

Your in a state of guess and by gosh!! on the other hand all that metal you seem to believe is wasted, is doing its job of making mush out of the insides, and your bullet is on its way to Dar es Salam, doing nada,so take your pick, its a push and neither one of us are able to solve such problems if they are even worth the trouble, but thats just my two bits on a somewhat interesting conversation..

Taken in Africa with a .458 300 grain Nosler Partition at MV of 2200 fps , which turned out to be the max impact velocity of the bullet.
One shot and it just collapsed onto the sand where it was eating a farmers goat.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Your in a state of guess and by gosh!! on the other hand all that metal you seem to believe is wasted, is doing its job of making mush out of the insides, and your bullet is on its way to Dar es Salam, doing nada,so take your pick, its a push and neither one of us are able to solve such problems if they are even worth the trouble, but thats just my two bits on a somewhat interesting conversation..

It is wasted if it does not get to the boiler room. It is not guessing. It is reporting from a source that has killed snd dissected more or as many buffalo as anyone. Use what you want, but Dr. Robinson’s observations should be taken into the decision.

Dr. Robertson loves the Partition for leopard.

First Cape buffalo I ever shot was with a 300 grain Partition, shot him 7 times, first shot at about 20 yards right thru left shoulder, next 6 in various places, any of which should’ve worked, I’ve used Barnes TSX in my .375 ever since with good results. First experience could well have been my fault, but I don’t think so…

If one is having trouble finding BARNES bullets, I suggest that you look to Cutting Edge Bullets.
See...
https://cuttingedgebullets.com/
I find that these are good bullets, either solid or expanding mono-metal.
And let me confirm, the 375 Ruger is a very fine platform.
Sincerely,

And the Cutting Edge 375 CAL, 300 grain expanding, is in stock...
https://cuttingedgebullets.com...r-rifle-maximus-50ct
Sincerely,

quote:

Originally posted by Dale:
A friend and I may make a trip to Africa next year. He does not have a rifle for buffalo so I may loan him a Ruger M77 African in .375 Ruger. I have only killed one buffalo, and used a .458 Lott and 500 gr. Barnes TSX bullet. I have used the 300 gr. TSX in my .375 H&H for croc, hippo, and some plains game and have been happy with it. I am not able to find more Barnes bullets, but have a lot of 300 gr. Nosler partitions. Is there any reason not to load some of the Noslers for him to use on buffalo? (I will also work up a load for some Hornady 300 gr. solids.) I would like to hear from hunters who actually used the Nosler partition on buffalo. Thanks.

The Barnes online store shows the 300 grain TSX in stock. They will ship them to you, if you are in the Lower 48. Not the case for Alaska, much my disappointment regarding a previous attempt on the 270 grain LRX.

Personally, if they were all I could find, I would use the 270 grain TSX before I'd use a Partition.

And have.

quote:

Originally posted by Ongwe:
Personally, if they were all I could find, I would use the 270 grain TSX before I'd use a Partition.

And have.

100% agree. I'd never use a Partition on buffalo. Detailed before on AR but I've had Partitions completely come apart on moose and caribou. IMO, when it comes to something like buffalo, hippo, elephant, there is more to the bullet requirement than "you recovered it so it must have worked (killed the animal)". I want a bullet I can count on for controlled expansion with DEEP penetration. Need that penetration factor at odd angles so the bullet has to hold together. The Barnes X is perfect for the task, again IMHO.

I agree with Todd Williams 100%. Don't get me wrong, I have used Nosler Partitions in numerous different calibres over the years for all sorts of game, from Pronghorn and Springbuck to Bison. While I would certainly use a Partition on cape buffalo if I had no other option, I would do so knowing I may change my shot placement slightly when compared with other options.

The front core on Partitions washes off and/or completely separates in a lot of instances when penetrating on big game. I have a box filled with recovered Partitions that are missing the front lead core. They were designed that way and the front core is disposable and not bonded. You lose the front lead core and the rear keeps penetrating with around 60% +/- weight retention.

For this reason I generally find the Partition under the hide on the far side in a lot of instances where you would get a pass through with a monometal bullet. Lots of shooters view the loss of the front core on a Partition as a "bullet failure", but that is simply not the case. Having said that I have had Partitions pretty much get destroyed when doing stuff like whacking a bull moose in the shoulder, hitting bone. Front core separation, remainder mangled and heading off course. It does happen.

Because of that one issue, lots of hunters prefer the Swift A-frames because they have the bonded front core and they have significantly higher weight retention. Others go for the monometal bullets like the TSX, CEB, or Hornady's GMX and newer CX, etc.

There is no doubt that you are going to get deeper penetration with a TSX. With a going away second shot, where you need to drive one from the rear as far forward as possible, the TSX (or similar) is going to give you much deeper penetration than a Partition. That said, in the olden days we used a Partition and then followed up with a solid to take care of that particular issue.

Given what is available for bullets now, with buff I would definitely be in the use a monometal bullet crowd, selecting a bullet like the TSX, as my first choice.

i started using 300 partitions this year in my Satterlee arms 375 Ruger...running them at 2700
so far i have shot 5 Sambar...first sambar i shot was a front on shot...shot him in the side of the neck where the neck joins the body, went down like a sack, but no exit...bit suprised
4 th Sambar i shot from about 20 m in he back hips, made a heck of a mess , no exit from a side on shot
5th Sambar i shot was front on from a 100 m, hit him high brisket ....no apparent exit
The shot that REALLY suprised me was the sambar i shot at 20 m through the back hips from a side on ...and no exit, really thought i would have got full penetraion through the back hips with a 300 partition

Does anyone know the retained weight of today’s Nosler Partitions? I remember reading somewhere that Nosler had redesigned the 375 and higher calibers from the 60% retained weight, to something like 70-80% for this very reason of better penetration on DG such as Buffalo, etc. I believe the article said they simply moved the partition more forward to the nose to obtain this result?

I have all the respect in the world for Doctari. and I have seen all bullets fail or seem to fail what ever the case may be. Any bullet can fail at one time or another, I saw early BarnesX bullets fail in all respects, until changes were made. I have on film two cape buffalo one shot 13 times and the other about 15 times with 470s and 500s by some clients in Boise, Id. amazing film. Bullets change, opinnions change as a
result, and confusion and disagreements are rampant!

I've never had a Nosler fail on buffalo, and thats all I can go by, I suggest it may be because I load them at 2400 to 2500 fps..

Yes, sometime ago, Nosler moved the partition forward and greatly improved the bullet I'm
told, I think Ive used that improved version, but wouldn't swear to it..I shaved some Noslers and one box of new bullets show the partition moved forward and the partition itself is thicker and shows to match a heavy swift bullet..

All this said my personal favorite 375 bullet for buffalo is the 350 gr. woodleigh PP, it just a heavy bonded core and suits me to a T..

Hymn, by your own admission, you stated you don,t agree with Robinson, please allow me the same option, I fully disagree with him on Noslers and a number of knowledgable men on this sight also consider a Nosler partition is a great buffalo bullet, the last bull I shot and my largest of many received the shot on the point of the shoulder and got a 2 inch exit hole , ran 75 yards and dropped, typical as opposed to this instant kill BS on buff, Hippo and elephant..Ive seen hundreds of buffalo killed and precious few dropped on the shot short of brain, spine shots, regardless of caliber..Lots of well known PHs consider the 375 a best buffalo caliber for their hunters and Noslers a proper bullet and disagree with Doctari, disagree ment is always acceptable in conversatins such as this..

Thanks for the info and insight Ray.

I’ve never used a NP on Buffalo, so I really don’t know anything with respect to that combination. My only experience with Buff so far has been with SAF & TBBC. Hoping to use 430 gr. NF next summer in my 404.

It seems for Buffalo at least, moving the partition forward was a great idea from Nosler, and you say the partition is thicker to boot!

Lots of good suggestions above.
In the 375, I like Cutting Edge Bullets, Solids and Raptors. Have used 300 gr, 375, CEB solid on 2 buffalo, both one shot kills. Brian

Dale,

I killed 2 cape buffalo with the 375 Ruger & 300 grain Nolser Partitions. We recovered 1 of the bullets. I have it here in Durango. I used 81 grains of IMR 4350 & CCI mag primer.

They worked for me.

Bob

Hi Colorado Bob,

Do you happen to have a pic of that bullet you recovered that you could post?

And do you have the recovered weight of the bullet?

Ray,
You mentioned bullet evolution reducing bullet failure over the years and I am trying a workaround for small bore bullet failure. Avoid small bores!
On very large, tough, or DG critters, use a real big bore rifle with premium bullets such as North Fork or Woodleigh and your problems will diminish.
To me big bore begins with .411 diameter and approaches satisfaction at .458 diameter PREMIUM bullets. If a larger diameter bullet appeals, use it!
Use premium solids on thick skinned beasties; ie Punch or North Fork.

WRT the thread title, I also like 300 grain Nosler PP for thin skinned DG, BUT the .458 caliber version at 2200 fps.

CR, plus 1, all good advise. As to big bores, if one can handle the calibers recoil, and I mean really handle it, thats a good reason to go to a caliber that one can shoot be it a 375, 9.3 or even a 30-06..and use proper bullets.

I've shot buffalo with Nosler partitions, but not my favorite bullet, especially for frontal shots. Very much prefer Swift A Frames.

Woodleigh's are good too and I see they might be available again. Unlike a lot on this forum, I'm not a big fan of Barnes. They'll work, most of the time, as will Nosler's.

North Forks and A Frames. Agree with lavaca on Barnes, Noslers work on elk and will work on buffalo.
The Swift 375 300 grain are back in stock on the Swift site.

The weakness of a 375 is frontal shots, Ive seen bullets slide off in the area between the rib cage and the shoulder on rare ocassions, The answer to that is don't take frontal shots!! wait until they turn, do that and the 375 is as good as any caliber for buffalo..

This conversation would be better suited in the 1940s and 50s and relates to old gun magazine articles, todays bullets very seldom fail, the bullet makers listened and corrected most all that hooey..I personally have not had a bullet failure in many years, and feel 99% of the bullet failures are misrepresented and may in fact refer to shooter error!

Ray,

I totally agree. I've never shot a buffalo with a .375 and likely never will unless I'm carrying one as my light rifle and the opportunity presents itself. My favorite shot on buffalo is hard, quartering to. Take them on the front of the lead shoulder with a good bullet and everything is good. Frontal is fine too, but there's that loose neck skin that's really thick. The Nosler is too soft for either shot in my humble opinion. Probably wouldn't take a shot with a .375 except at a broadside animal. Like I said, never shot one with a .375.

Get some readily available Swift A-Frames and stop worrying.

Well your spot on, the 375 is a great buffalo rifle in the right hands with the knowledge not to take certain shots.This scenario seems to stop at the 375 caliber as the 40 calibers don't seem to have that problem if one considers it a problem..I shot a number of buffalo with the 9.3x62, 375s with no problems, and acouple with the 7x57 and 338..got that on film..My favorite is the 404 and 416 REM and anything larger is one can truly handle the recoil. Ive seen many that couldl not and refused to admit it..IMO if you can handle the recoil of your big bore as well as a 243 or 257, your buffalo ready..if less then try a 375 or 9.3x62 and proper angle shooting, keep in mind if they are looking at you they probably will turn, if not shoot for the brain..

Ive gotten better penetration with Nosler than most for reason I don't understand. I got two holes with broadside shots consistently with two inch exit holes. As a matter of fact, on going away shots I got full penetration with the bullet found in the neck or under the skin at the shoulder as a rule. The 375 main claim to fame is penetration, it never fails to amaze me.

My all time favorite bullet in the 375 was the North Fork cup point, now that puppy rips things up inside and 98% of the time and exit hole, and why not! its an expanding solid, pretty damn ingenious.

Another unsung hero especially in a .375 is the Woodleigh 350 gr. soft PP, it penetrates like hell and exits leaving a large exit hole in most cases, its a real dandy..I also loved it in the 404 Jeffery at 450 grs..

I also think we misread poor bullet performance in game without a proper amateur biopsy. A bullet size exit is an exit, if its too large the bullet is borderline soft, a look at internal damage in most cases if not all show good damage..A bullet lodged under the skin is "as good" as full exit hole penetration, and better in some cases if you talk to the experts, and Ill go with both as 100 % satisfactory. Bullet failure is a bullet destroyed and failed to kill and a long tracking job is at hand, a bullet that blows up on entrance and completely fails to open up an performs as a solid. the rest is forgiven.

I believe on 375 caliber and up that Nosler pushed the partition a little further forward to retain more weight after shedding the front.
Closer to 80% weight retention now.
I used NF solid shank softs on quite a few animals in Africa in a 416 and a 470 NE.
Outstanding bullets. Very accurate as well.

EZ