The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Caliber comparison - opinions?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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OK guys - between a .458 Win shooting 500 grain bullets and a .416 Rem shooting 400 gr bullets - which do you think is better for elephants? The way I see it is you have more bullet weight/mass in the .458 at slower velocity and a smaller/faster bullet out of the .416. Tell me which you think is best and why... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | ||
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I like the larger bullet diameter when it comes to Ele. As you get more diameter you see a hared impact even if the shot isn't perfect. A bigger hole through the Lungs will create a bigger leak. The 416 has plenty of penetration as it zips on through but with good loads the 458 should provide plenty of penetration. However, I do use the 480grn Woodleigh bullets for some extra fps (matching the classic 450NE 2150fps loads). | |||
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The 416s work on elephant but the 458 Win works better if you can handle the added recoil. 465H&H | |||
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Walt, I thought there was a pretty detailed discussion here on AR a few months back, where the wiz bang guys got out the calculators and determined that the 400gr 416 at 2400fps actually produces more and faster free recoil than a 500gr 458 at 2150fps! I could be wrong but that's what I seem to remember. Also having 2 458WM's in the past and currently a 416 Rigby, I can't tell a bit of difference between the two concerning recoil levels. For an allround African cartridge and even allround African DG cartridge, I would prefer the 416. But for Elephant specifically, I suppose I like the larger frontal area of the 458, assuming of course that you are getting the proper velocity necessary for penetration. That shouldn't be an issue with the powders we have available to us today. | |||
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Thanks...I can't tell any real difference in recoil, and I am very accustomed to shooting .458, so not too worried there. Like Todd, if I was going to have just 1, it would be the .416 for overall performance. I like that a .416 is good at 200 yards, but for ele specific and I have both, just trying to decide best option... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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Todd, I have never shot a 416 of any persuasion and I should know better to make statements with out having some experience with both of their recoil levels. So, I bow to your greater experience with these two calibers. 465H&H | |||
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I have shot only one elephant,it was with a 416 lazzeroni, a velocity monster. The elephant died sure enough. However, the rifle was long in the barrel. I wanted a bigger caliber, bigger is better. I switched over to B&M rifles. The 19" barrel is awesome. The rifle handles fantastic. I am pushing 3000fps with a 335 grain CEB hollow point. | |||
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Of the two calibers/cartridges, Elephant specific, 458 hands down. Bullet choice, 450, not 500. 450 BBW#13, 450 North Fork. Winchester case is short on capacity, can easy run the 450s to 2250 fps, and all the penetration you will ever need with a proper bullet. Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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Tim, If you are going to use the rifle on elephant only, my choice would be the .458 which is what I shot my elephant with in 2009. Side brain at 28yds., dead elephant quick, full penetration on the bull. However, if you are hunting some other animals and might need more range the 416 would be handy. I have a custom 416 Rigby for that purpose also. I never found the 458 wanting and I shot several animals with mine, open sights only. One was an impala at 120 yds. Just my $0.02 | |||
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For Elephant, any .458 - WM, Lott or B&M. My .416Rem Mdl 70 is a sweetheart and has killed almost all my Buff and can reach out and touch things more effectively than a .375. In 16 days I depart for my next Ele hunt and he will fall to a .458B&M shooting the CEB 450 gr. BBW#13 solid. The .416 will be in the hands of my SIL loaded with the 370 gr. NonCon for Buff and Hippo. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I don't think it matters very much. Elephant's organs are so large that I don't think it matters much if one bullet is 1/32" or so bigger than another. Recoil between the two choices is almost identical (I calculated it). On the other hand, .375 recoil is a lot less than either. A .375 will give you better hits. Indy Life is short. Hunt hard. | |||
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The same answer, The biggest gun you can shoot accurately. I'd prefer using 500 gr truncated cone Brass solids in the .458 WM at 2150fps myself.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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 That's just an inaccurate statement. | |||
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Hey Walt, I didn't mean to sound arrogant and apologize if I did so. I was just recalling this specific recoil discussion from the recent past. | |||
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458w because of the bullet weight, and the additional diameter can't hurt either. 500gr Woodleigh or other steel jacketed solid for the first (brain) shot, but truncated cone 450 grainers for their penetration for the second or additional follow on shots if needed. My Woodelighs run 2135fps and will traverse and exit a bull's skull front to back or side to side if they miss the off side zygomatic arch. My 450gr North Forks at 2220fps will exit on side on body shots and fully penetrate skulls too, but they are not as reliable in the skull as Woodleighs. JPK  Free 500grains | |||
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Todd, You didn't sound at all arrogant. You were right and I spoke without thinking it through. Were cool! 465H&H | |||
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I guess when I hunt elephants, I will take the .458. When it is buff and anything else decent sized it will be the .416. I just wish my .416 was completely finished so I could take it to Moz next week. Until then, the .458 does fine on buff...would be nice just to take one gun sometimes though... Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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458WM and 416 should make a good combo. I actually like the 416 better than the 375 as the allround or "lite" rifle. It'll do everything the 375 will, but better! | |||
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Please do explain. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth - It's the "magik" of the .375, don'tcha know? Just ask any witch doctor. Todd - You're welcome to share my "a .416 will do it better" line anytime! Maybe we are gaining ground? Michael458 calls the .375 a "girlie gun" fit only for "sissies". He might be right. Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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I have to agree with you two that I think the .416 is the best all around caliber for Africa. That is why I got this one...  Good Hunting, Tim Herald Worldwide Trophy Adventures tim@trophyadventures.com | |||
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I agree with you three--the 416 Rigby lives and breathes Africa. It can be loaded FLAT--2800+fps with 350 TTSX or 325 tippedCEB, and the same bullet carries over 6000 ftlbs for tissue damage and killing power. Back to the topic, I think that a 458Lott or 458 AccR would be preferred over the Winnie for elephant. (I don't personally shoot or eat them.) +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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The correct answer is NEITHER ... A 600 is a better choice unless you are recoil shy like Biebs - then a 577 is nearly as good. My favorite all-around caliber whereever I go for anything I might hunt is a .416 Weatherby (that's a .416 SAF as my avatar) but if I were choosing betwen the two for elephant exclusively, it would be a .458 over the .416. Why? Difference in recoil at the range is marginal ... in the field ... zero Size does matter - that 0.048" difference might be the difference between severing the brainstem in a brain shot or spinal cord vs. "coming close" and just stunning the leviathan NRA Lifer; DSC Lifer; SCI member; DRSS; AR member since November 9 2003 Don't Save the best for last, the smile for later or the "Thanks" for tomorow | |||
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Mate, the 458 with solids is great for shooting through the Miombo sticks so common up Niassa way. Will have mine with the Woodleigh 480grn bullets on this trip. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Caliber comparison - opinions?
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